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Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

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Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#91
post #41

the whole pc laptop industry really is an embarrassment right now. It has been 5 years since the M1 Macbook release, and there is no real equivalent. I'm on a thinkpad x9, which might be the closest I've seen, but the cpu performance just isn't as good.

XPS 13 has snapdragon x elite and is very well built. Not sure how good Linux support is, tho. I run Linux on my Intel-based XPS 14 and it's pretty good, apart from the webcam being totally uncalibrated and looking kinda shite, but at least it works.

Maximum 32GB of RAM, which is a bad joke if you want to use it as developer system nowadays.

TL;DR: Waited for a decade for somebody to make a non-shitty notebook, went for macbook as the least bad option when the old one was falling apart.

Also the modern thinkpad keyboards are crap, and the trackpoint is unusable in the low profile style.

I switched to a macbook pro last year after having some contact with apple hardware in a customer project, from a thinkpad x230 with a x220 keyboard I've kept barely alive over the years. Now _some_ non-Apple notebooks (mostly from framework) can take sensible amount of memory, but at the time of purchase that was the only 14" notebook capable of taking a decent amount of RAM. The only other ones that could take RAM were some xeon workstation type builds - big display, shitty battery runtime, and same or more expensive than a fully specced out macbook.

Apple also seems to have put some effort into keyboards - with the current macbook pro keyboard being one of the best notebook keyboards currently out there. Not as good as the classic thinkpad keyboards, but better than anything lenovo made in over a decade. Dell never was that great, and did a massive step back in their latest model. HP is somewhat close, but still noticeable difference.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#92
post #90

I think the kind of laptop this person wishes should simply be made illegal to make. We cannot sustain having all electric devices being thrown after a year or two, these things need to last, to be repairable and make it easy to grab pieces and materials when they die anyway

> I don’t care one bit about upgradability or customizability. After a year or two, I’m happy to throw it out and buy a new one. It’s not like upgradability is a bad thing, but it usually comes with tradeoffs to weight and power draw, and I’d rather it all be in one solid package glued together. And I don’t like customizability because I like when all the testing and polish work is put into one configuration.

Jesus christ. What a wasteful and selfish way to look at things.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#93

> Consumer electronics naming is very simple. Make a good product with a simple name. “iPhone”, “comma”, “Z Fold”. Then every year or two, add one to the number of that product. If it’s a small refresh, you can add a letter after the number. “2 3 3X 4” “4 4s 5 5s 6 …” “2 3 4 5 6 7” Why is this so hard for companies like HP? Oh man I feel this every time there’s a games console launch. I still have no idea what the la…

You know as a company that you have gone out of the ability to create something if you come up first with name changes of existing products. Looking at you, Office (or whatever your name is today).

Google Workspace hasn’t changed its name in a few years now. Do you think it’s due for a change or has it finally sobered up?

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#94

the whole pc laptop industry really is an embarrassment right now. It has been 5 years since the M1 Macbook release, and there is no real equivalent. I'm on a thinkpad x9, which might be the closest I've seen, but the cpu performance just isn't as good.

The HP Zbook Ultra G1A is a contender, but it's also the only contender to your point.

Unfortunately it idles at ~8W, which is quite far from the ~3W of the best in class laptops.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#95
post #45

I agree about some criticisms of the framework. I think they could do away with the plug modules and just go all in on usb-c. I don't mind the occasional dongle for HDMI. I also would prefer a thinner screen bezel, even if that means it's not swappable either. But having easy access to internal hardware for upgrades is pretty huge. Rather than blowing 1-2k on a new machine every few years, it's just $200-500 for more…

Frameworks (laptops) are all in on usb-c. That's the only port they come with. The modules are just type-c dongles. And they are too small - the official ethernet one hangs outside the body.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#96

All I want is a thinner Thinkpad X220 but with upped specs and newer ports. Framework-style upgradable motherboard would be nice but optional. The X220 already has a perfect keyboard, a mousing system that doesn't suck (sorry, I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise), a beautiful form factor for a laptop (if I want a laptop, I want it to be 12-14in for easiest portability), it's practically ind…

> "I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise" Same for me, Apple included; trackpads are just a huge waste of space to me. Have to say that my hand-eye coordination is way above that of the average computer user, and my workflows involving complementary HIDs always focused on trackballs, digtizer pens, as well as gamepads/game controllers for other, non-game related stuff. I also don't get why pe…

I don't understand what you mean by "outdated form factors". Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor? What "market realities" are you noticing? Really interested in your viewpoint and would be grateful for some clarification.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#97
post #15

I wonder why ThinkPads are not mentioned. It's not like I recommend them (I mean, I use one, but it's not like I've tried most laptops out there, so who I am to judge), but I was under the impression it's still a de-facto Linux laptop standard.

The author of the article recently had a “laptop olympics” stream where he compared his laptops. He owns an X1 carbon but doesn’t like it at all, mainly because of the CPU iirc.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#98
post #17

The bit about HP’s naming scheme is painfully true, about many companies. Utterly dumb marketing strategies.

I feel the same way, but I wouldn't be bold enough to call it dumb. I mean, I assume they know what they are doing. This is very inconvenient for me, as a buyer, but I suppose most companies just aren't Apple, so they throw at us a lot of various stuff hoping that something sticks. And, for that matter, Apple's product line gets more diversified each year too. now it's Air, and Pro, and Max, so I wouldn't bet it won'…

Zbook Ultra G1a 14 makes perfect sense:

Z means workstation

Book for notebook/laptop format, not desktop

Ultra is the line, like Pro in MacBook Pro

G1 is the first generation, that way you don't have to wonder

a for AMD

14 is the screen diagonal

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#99
post #92
post #90

I think the kind of laptop this person wishes should simply be made illegal to make. We cannot sustain having all electric devices being thrown after a year or two, these things need to last, to be repairable and make it easy to grab pieces and materials when they die anyway

> I don’t care one bit about upgradability or customizability. After a year or two, I’m happy to throw it out and buy a new one. It’s not like upgradability is a bad thing, but it usually comes with tradeoffs to weight and power draw, and I’d rather it all be in one solid package glued together. And I don’t like customizability because I like when all the testing and polish work is put into one configuration. Jesus c…

To defend OP somewhat: his throw out should be someone else’s pre-owned and then we are square.

Not in defense: This is a customer who sees itself as an ultra pro user that only wants the best on all dimensions regardless of economics. Nice that there are about a few hundred of these customers in the world. This is a market that doesn’t exist and frankly, give this customer their wish and they only have other or more wishes.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#100
post #99
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t care one bit about upgradability or customizability. After a year or two, I’m happy to throw it out and buy a new one. It’s not like upgradability is a bad thing, but it usually comes with tradeoffs to weight and power draw, and I’d rather it all be in one solid package glued together. And I don’t like customizability because I like when all the testing and polish work is put into one configuration. Jesus c…

To defend OP somewhat: his throw out should be someone else’s pre-owned and then we are square. Not in defense: This is a customer who sees itself as an ultra pro user that only wants the best on all dimensions regardless of economics. Nice that there are about a few hundred of these customers in the world. This is a market that doesn’t exist and frankly, give this customer their wish and they only have other or more…

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