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Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

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Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#831

Post by pjmlp »

Telaneo wrote: post #827
pjmlp wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it relies on Microsoft's good will.

Care to elaborate? Can Microsoft flip a switch tomorrow and make Wine or Proton non-viable or illegal? I can't see how that would happen.

They control the technologies, their direction, how a future DirectX 13 or Windows 12 might look like, and have all the legal system on their side.

Also Microsoft Games Studios owns enough studios to make an impact.

Also Proton means zero game studios have to care Steam OS exists, they target Windows, use Visual Studio, and Valve is the one that has to make the needful if they care.

The same studios might even be using game engines that support GNU/Linux, yet letting Valve do the work is much more appealing.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#832

Post by pjmlp »

bigyabai wrote: post #828
Telaneo wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? Can Microsoft flip a switch tomorrow and make Wine or Proton non-viable or illegal? I can't see how that would happen.

No, they cannot. It would require a huge DirectX API overhaul that would not propagate to hundreds of thousands of games that Proton supports.

It is enough to propagate to whole game studios owned by Microsoft Game Studios to make a visible impact, or take those games out of Steam.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#833

Post by Telaneo »

pjmlp wrote: post #831
Telaneo wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? Can Microsoft flip a switch tomorrow and make Wine or Proton non-viable or illegal? I can't see how that would happen.

They control the technologies, their direction, how a future DirectX 13 or Windows 12 might look like, and have all the legal system on their side. Also Microsoft Games Studios owns enough studios to make an impact. Also Proton means zero game studios have to care Steam OS exists, they target Windows, use Visual Studio, and Valve is the one that has to make the needful if they care. The same studios might even be usi…

Graphics APIs have trended to be lower level, running basically directly on the GPU. I doubt Microsoft will be able to convince game developers to go the other way just to get their fingers inbetween you and your game.

Microsoft has been absolute dogshit at releasing newer program APIs for developer to use. Wine doesn't support UWPs/appx just because there's no demand, since no-one uses the Windows Store. You expect that same Microsoft to get game devs to jump on their new DRM scheme?

Microsoft released even their darling Halo in 2020 and 2021, and have committed to release Halo: Campaign Evolved in 2026 on Steam. I can't think of any new titles under the Microsoft umbrella that hasn't also released in Steam. They've realised that battle is lost. They can change course, but that doesn't mean they'll get anything out of that.

Developers are already doing sanity checks and patches specific to SteamOS. That trend will continue if SteamOS or Linux gains ground. It doesn't matter that the foundation is Microsoft, because even if Microsoft goes bankrupt tomorrow, that foundation doesn't disappear, and even the most malicious Microsoft can't unmake reimplementations or translation layers of their APIs.

That same studio would prefer to make a stable Windows version than an unstable Linux version that might not even work in 5 years since it used some stupid dependency. ANd if they're sensible about it and do a sanity check with Proton, Valve doesn't even have to do any work for them outside of what's already been done.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#834

Post by strbean »

Xss3 wrote: post #765
danaris wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody prefires with perfect robotic consistency. Then all you need to do to fool this anticheat is to add some randomness to the cheat.

Then youve immediately made the cheater worse than the best players to blend in with them. Mission accomplished, cheater nerfed significantly. You wont even know theyre doing it.

> Then youve immediately made the cheater worse than the best players to blend in with them.

You've made them the same as the best players. Otherwise we're banning the best players.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#835

Post by Telaneo »

pjmlp wrote: post #832
bigyabai wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they cannot. It would require a huge DirectX API overhaul that would not propagate to hundreds of thousands of games that Proton supports.

It is enough to propagate to whole game studios owned by Microsoft Game Studios to make a visible impact, or take those games out of Steam.

Ubisoft tried that with their newer games. It didn't work. I can't imagine it would work even if they took every single title of Steam that they could. All that would do is make those games not sell.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#836

Post by strbean »

brain_staple wrote: post #240
strbean wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, haven't gotten the chance to play it yet. But the same implication - we'll need someone at Valve with a big enough ego to take up the mantle.

I don't think that's how the people at Valve think. These people usually have lifetime dreams to work at Valve well before they do because they admired those early games so much, which if you know the story were held up to very high standards internally and repeatedly. They spent their lives being hyper critical of their own craft and admire Valve because they don't a release subpar product as a rule. So collectively…

I think that fits with how they think. HL3 has mythical status. We've already seen Valve devs make a major game in the HL universe and intentionally avoid "making HL3" due to this mythos. It takes a lot of confidence to say "Hey guys, I'm putting together the team to make Sistine Chapel 2."

(To be clear, I'm not saying it's a matter of ownership and personal brand. But someone needs to start the project and form a team around it. I don't think they're worried about personal brand, it's more an issue of reverence for the franchise.)

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#837

Post by TulliusCicero »

goosejuice wrote: post #796
lsaferite wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their point was that WotC doesn't get the same flak that Value does when MtG is worse, by far, than cosmetic loot boxes.

Yes, I'm calling that questionable. Says who? TCGs have entire formats designed in opposition to the high cost random booster shit. I think that's pretty good evidence that there's high negative sentiment. Valve is simply larger and took legal heat for people misusing the API.

I'm saying based on sentiment I see as a gamer.

There's plenty of outrage about paid loot boxes and viewing them as terrible, terrible gambling that exploits consumers and ought to be regulated/banned. Not everyone agrees with this take, but it's still fairly widespread.

Now, you do see people pointing out that trading card games are basically still gambling -- and no one really disagrees with that -- you just don't see the same level of outrage about it. What you usually see is grudging acceptance, ala "what're ya gonna do, that's just how these card games are".

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#838

Post by pjmlp »

Telaneo wrote: post #833
pjmlp wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control the technologies, their direction, how a future DirectX 13 or Windows 12 might look like, and have all the legal system on their side. Also Microsoft Games Studios owns enough studios to make an impact. Also Proton means zero game studios have to care Steam OS exists, they target Windows, use Visual Studio, and Valve is the one that has to make the needful if they care. The same studios might even be usi…

Graphics APIs have trended to be lower level, running basically directly on the GPU. I doubt Microsoft will be able to convince game developers to go the other way just to get their fingers inbetween you and your game. Microsoft has been absolute dogshit at releasing newer program APIs for developer to use. Wine doesn't support UWPs/appx just because there's no demand, since no-one uses the Windows Store. You expect…

Valve is the one making most of the work, devs target Windows, business as usual.

WinRT now runs on Win32 side as well, that is what new APIs like Windows ML, the abstraction used for all kinds of AI infrastructure now use, just as one example.

Microsoft Games Studio will do whatever they need to make shareholders happy, and if Steam gets in the way of XBox handhelds, maybe a change of heart will take place.

Who knows, Valve is the one that needs to worry, not Microsoft, they control the technology.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#839

Post by pjmlp »

Telaneo wrote: post #835
pjmlp wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is enough to propagate to whole game studios owned by Microsoft Game Studios to make a visible impact, or take those games out of Steam.

Ubisoft tried that with their newer games. It didn't work. I can't imagine it would work even if they took every single title of Steam that they could. All that would do is make those games not sell.

Ubisoft doesn't own one of the top three games console, and the most sold desktop operating system in history.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#840

Post by preisschild »

Terretta wrote: post #119
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Would love to see it on MacOS X -- Steam works great on my Mac Mini for the games it supports, would be great to see everything run on it.

It would be neat if Valve would fund having Steam Client run on Apple Silicon without Rosetta 2 so arm games like Baldur's Gate 3 can be fully supported.

If you mean "on Apple Silicon" just arm64, then they will probably do that for the Steam Frame. If you mean "on macOS", then probably not.

But you can always install Linux on your Macbook.

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