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Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

jacobin.com

271–280 of 281 posts

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#271
post #13

Maybe slightly off topic to the article, but I don't really care what Peter Thiel has to say. I do think we need to collectively think about how to not give these people a microphone. It's one thing to have concentrated wealth. It's a very different thing to have concentrated wealth and people's attention. I think that's a much more interesting discussion :).

It would be nice to be able to ignore Peter Thiel's opinions, but that's not a luxury we can afford while he's buying federal law enforcement politicians up to and including the vice president to help implement his crazy.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how many people is he actually influencing? . His primary audience is probably more like the folks in the HN community and no one here seems to be taking these ramblings seriously. A half dozen preachers at medium to large congregations reach and influence far more people with these kind of ideas without his billions and press at their disposal. He’s actually small potatoes in this apocalypse space. I say let him…

I see this all the time in real life though. Right-wing „influencers“ with the worst takes you could imagine are getting funded somehow , while even the best scientists are getting deplatformed left and right.

> Are getting funded somehow

They are getting funded because people are tapping into the zeitgeist, so the message is popular and presented in ways people find interesting and compelling. Money abounds whenever people are listening.

> the best scientists are getting deplatformed

Because they are not tapping into public mood or in a lot of cases simply unable to communicate effectively to the populace in a way that attracts platforming and financial interests. The sensible or realistic apocalypse stories just aren’t as sexy as the magical and supernatural ones.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that dystopia is how those people would remain rich if nobody below them could afford their products. Henry Ford was a terrible person in many ways, but his idea of paying his auto workers decently so they could afford to buy the Model T's they were building was not only good for the workers but smart business.

> The problem with that dystopia is how those people would remain rich if nobody below them could afford their products. That's not actually a problem with it. For a business owner, customers and employees are actually just a means to an end (customers yield profit, which is money, which is power and control within capitalism; employees are the means of converting money to power and control). AGI could let a select g…

But still, that doesn't make sense. Say, they tell AGI to collect all the gold in the world. What makes that more interesting than just yellow rock unless there is an economy underneath them that sees gold as valuable?

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#274
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claims made in this thread have elements of truth, but I can't help but conclude that they're made in bad faith. Thiel has said he doubts democracy’s compatibility with freedom. But , his response is relatively non-political: escape, via internet communities, seasteading, and tech ventures. His view on democracy is that it inevitably leads to over-regulation, ever expanding welfare (requiring ever expanding defic…

"Competition is for losers." He's said there are "Satanic" components to AI. "fate of our world may depend on the effort of a single person who builds or propagates the machinery of freedom that makes the world safe for capitalism." "Monopolies are good" He's said the country should be lead by a monarch or "monarch-like figure". The guy is a fucking nut.

Again, I think you're interpreting a lot of figurative language through the least charitable lens.

> "Competition is for losers"

He didn't actually originate this. The NYT did, in a review of his book. It was so catchy he ran with it. Of course, beyond the provocative headline is the idea that startups should seek green fields, not enter hyper competitive areas where margins are competed away.

> He's said there are "Satanic" components to AI.

Metaphor.

> "fate of our world may depend..."

Keyword here is "may". Clearly a conjecture on his part. And like most things he says, part of a larger narrative he is weaving via symbolism.

> "Monopolies are good"

Bad faith interpretation. A VC/founder achieves a monopoly insofar as they invent or revolutionize a market, typically via breakthrough technology. Facebook and Google rose to dominance bc their products were 10x better than the alternatives.

> He's said the country should be lead by a monarch or "monarch-like figure".

No, he didn't. If you can find a legitimate source for this, I will eat crow.

You may not like his ideas. But I encourage you to not rely on the interpretations of others (i.e. media headlines from left leaning outlets, etc.) and to steelman his arguments when you seek to criticize them.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#275
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One side is metastasising in the US government right now, the other has been long dead. "it's the same because they're both bad" ok...

It's not been long dead. There's a communist who's just been elected to Mayer of New York.

So is he communist or islamist in the end ? I keep hearing both but they're mutually exclusive

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#276
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s a socialist. Painting all socialism as “evil communism” is reductive and dishonest.

Mamdani has said that (1) they'll open government-run stores, and (2) the government will seize buildings from bad landlords. My family is from a communist country and I can assure you, that is communistic.

Any time someone mention "fascism" or "communism" you can be sure people instantly lose 50 IQ point and come up with the most convoluted definitions of these terms

The US army have their own government owned supermarkets. And there are plenty of US states and other countries with public stores which are definitely not communist. Is the US army communist ?

In Berlin we voted to seize housing from megacorp landlords profiteering from housing, I don't think Berlin is communist either. https://qz.com/2065655/berliners-voted-to-seize-housing-from...

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mamdani has said that (1) they'll open government-run stores, and (2) the government will seize buildings from bad landlords. My family is from a communist country and I can assure you, that is communistic.

Any time someone mention "fascism" or "communism" you can be sure people instantly lose 50 IQ point and come up with the most convoluted definitions of these terms The US army have their own government owned supermarkets. And there are plenty of US states and other countries with public stores which are definitely not communist. Is the US army communist ? In Berlin we voted to seize housing from megacorp landlords pr…

The US army isn't communist by that definition, no. Any more than any employer who provides food to their employees isn't communist.

In Berlin you didn't realise that population increase is what enriches landlords and screws regular people, but you still vote for a lot of immigration. Population increase in a finite, well-settled country is what gives rise to landlords.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism did not kill the natives, the colonial governments and other European governments did. Communism implies evil/bad/death, but capitalism does not. And even then, the "system" in place at the time was mercantilism, not capitalism. For your last argument, you do not need to be Gordon Ramsay to know when something tastes bad. Once again, growing up under communism implies with 99% certainty that you do not wan…

> Capitalism did not kill the natives, the colonial governments and other European governments did Then neither did communism. The governments did. > And even then, the "system" in place at the time was mercantilism, not capitalism. Sure. Just like the soviet union, china, north korea, etc are not true communists. Idiots on both sides always make the same excuses. > Once again, growing up under communism implies with…

Well capitalism does not always mean bad, but communism does. Therefore, one is objectively worse than the other.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#279
post #123
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing the GP said had anything to do with taking away people's voice because they are rich, they are saying just because they are rich they don't automatically deserve a microphone. HN seems very ready to defend the rich and powerful from attacks that don't even exist and its weird to come here and say how great he is while also seeing what his efforts have actually wrought - nothing positive on education or govern…

> how to not give these people a microphone

Yes, the word is give, as in "we are all giving our time away listening to this dumbass" - nothing about pointing my ears in a different direction is taking away anyone's ability to speak.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

capitalism is great just don't ask the natives about it

Communism always implies death and destruction, capitalism does not. I am not saying that capitalism and its associated governments always result in perfect or even good outcomes, but that communism always results in bad ones. And either way, the natives were wiped out by governments under mercantilism, not capitalism.

what part of the communist ethos implies death and destruction? really it seems more baked in to capitalism and democracy is the more important piece rather than the economic system... a socialist system can be democratic too
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