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Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

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Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#351

Post by saghm »

blibble wrote: post #18

kinda funny that Microsoft has tried and failed multiple times to make Windows on ARM work and then valve is probably going to succeed, to Microsoft's detriment

The key difference is that Valve isn't trying to make Windows work, just desktop gaming, which I'd imagine is a large part of why Microsoft's efforts failed. As much as Linux desktops haven't particularly had much polish over the years, there's still an advantage to taking something bare bones and trying to flesh it out in a way that's works well compared to taking something that's already pretty bloated and then trying to retrofit it into something new.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#352

Post by tombert »

internet101010 wrote: post #323
tombert wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wonder if it's an inherent symptom of massive success. I'm not talking Valve level of success, but more like Google and Apple and Microsoft levels. Eventually every company has downturns in the market, and whether or not it's fair the investors/board of directors will think it's because of the current strategy, and they'll engage in terrible rent-seeking behavior. I just worry that if we keep rewarding them, a…

Valve already owns the market. There is nothing left to strangle. Every attempt to break through has been a failure and none of those failures can be attributed to an anti-competitive action taken by Valve. They could have engaged in rent seeking a long time ago if they wanted to. They are managing their market position well by not abusing their customers or giving customers a reason to complain to lawmakers. Epic's…

GOG has managed to do pretty well in their own way. Nowhere near as popular as Steam, obviously, but they hold their own, and they've managed to do it without DRM. Humble Bundle has also managed to do something as well (though admittedly that's largely through selling Steam keys).

I feel like this is a Normalcy bias though [1]. Valve hasn't abused their status yet, and maybe they never will, but all it takes is a change in management for that to come to an end. Even if there's no competition to squelch, they still might just decide they want more money and engage in rent-seeking behavior.

For example (and to be clear I am just making this up and it's not based on anything), suppose Valve were to start charging a yearly "hosting fee", where you now have to pay $50 a year to cover the cost of hosting your games, and if you don't pay this hosting fee you lose access to all your games. I have like 800 games on Steam, I've spent thousands of dollars on them throughout the years, I don't want to lose them, so I'd probably complain about it and take out my credit card and just pay it.

Stuff like this has already happened with other companies (like the Unity licensing fee fiasco a couple years ago).

I'm not saying that it will happen, but at this point Steam has so much of the market and so many people have their entire game collections on there that I don't think we should discount the possibility that it could happen.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#353

Post by johnnyanmac »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #327
MattDaEskimo wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest about this current situation. Valve pushing for Linux gaming is for survival, not charity. Windows is closing in on them: stricter kernel access (tougher time for anti-cheat) Encouraging users to use the app store, or more accurately: discouraging users to install from binary They threaten Valve's business model, and Valve is responding with proton & SteamOS

They're doing things that are simultaneously good for business and good for consumers. That contrasts against the companies doing things that are good for business (at least short term) and bad for consumers.

yes. it aligns, for now. But only for now. all those FAANG's had the same status too, once upon a time.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#355

Post by nemomarx »

sershe wrote: post #287
bee_rider wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve seems more like Apple than Google: a well-liked company that has an obvious and not inherently exploitive business model. Google as an ad company was always destined to go bad in a way that most non-ad companies are not. No company is your friend, and they are all fundamentally structures around making a profit. But providing goods and services in exchange for money is not inherently exploitive or evil.

Valve makes most of their money from Steam lock-in. Given these numbers and the pathetic state of all the alternative game stores, they are ONE company before Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. that richly deserves some antitrust enforcement https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/valves-reported-prof... Not to say they are not great for Linux gaming. But this should not be mistaken for some kind of idealistic position. Win…

One wonders why other, well funded games stores can't compete on features and sales pricing with steam?

Epic is giving games away but it still doesn't seem worth it to me to switch over because they lack steam input, good achievements, friend systems, good chat, inventory systems to trade items...

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#356

Post by phainopepla2 »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #295
cortesoft wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These things do not prevent cheating at all. I feel like this is the same as saying "seatbelts don't prevent car accident deaths at all", just because people still die in car accidents while wearing seat belts. Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it doesn't provide value. There is a LOT less cheating in games with good anti-cheat, and it is much more pleasant to play those games because of it.…

I don't think that analogy holds because the environment isn't actively in an arms race against seatbelts. The qualifier "good" for "good anti-cheat" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. What was once good enough is now laughably inadequate. We have followed that thread to its logical conclusion with the introduction of kernel-level anti-cheat. That has proven to be insufficient, unsurprisingly, and, given enough time, t…

> the environment isn't actively in an arms race against seatbelts.

I would beg to differ. In the US at least, there does seem to be a hidden arms race between safety features and the environment (in the form of car size growth)

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#357

Post by Waterluvian »

levocardia wrote: post #147
adverbly wrote: post #98

Everything valve doing for linux is making such a huge impact. The HL3 memes don't even seem fair to use anymore. I don't even want to un-seriously make joke fun of them at this point. They are just genuinely doing so much for the community.

Valve is one of the few companies regularly seen on HN where the headline is something like "[company] is secretly doing something really great" as opposed to "[company] is secretly doing something evil"

Incentives happen to be aligned on this part. That’s all.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#358

Post by tombert »

henryfjordan wrote: post #344
tombert wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Proton and I like Steam and Valve definitely has done a lot of good for the FOSS world, but let’s not make the same mistakes we made with Google by worshipping a company. All it takes is new management to change the policies to make the company horrible and evil, and in the case of Google people made the realization far too late, and now Google owns too much of the internet to avoid.

Valve is not building all this Linux Compatibility out of the goodness of their hearts. They are doing it to avoid being shutdown by Microsoft, who effectively had a monopoly on the OS people used to play games. It's a bit of miracle that Valve beat MS to the punch and built momentum behind Steam as the marketplace for games. They know this. If gamers move to Linux and all the compatibility issues are solved, Valve i…

Sure, none of that is untrue, but they could still engage in rent seeking behavior. They could start requiring subscription fees for stuff that previously didn't require it (like start capping download speeds unless you're part of "Steam+" or something), or blacklist any distro that isn't SteamOS, or make it difficult or impossible to install games from third-party stores (like GOG) on Steam Decks or their upcoming Steam Boxes.

I'm not saying that this still will happen, and it's fairly likely that it won't happen, but I just think we should be mindful for it. Twenty years ago, pretty much everyone in the tech world loved Google.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#359

Post by password4321 »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #294
tombert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a near infinite amount of respect for Wine. It seems like for at least the last twenty years, Wine just keeps getting better and better with every release. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect a lot of the work is spent sussing out weird edge cases with different binaries. This is tedious, thankless work, but it is necessary to have true Windows compatibility. Wine and Proton have gotten so good that I don’t b…

Sadly Wine only seems to be working well for games. Every non gaming app I've tried to run does not work. It does seem like Valve and the gaming community is contributing almost all the effort on the project.

CodeWeavers sells app support: https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#360

Post by tombert »

nemomarx wrote: post #355
sershe wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve makes most of their money from Steam lock-in. Given these numbers and the pathetic state of all the alternative game stores, they are ONE company before Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. that richly deserves some antitrust enforcement https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/valves-reported-prof... Not to say they are not great for Linux gaming. But this should not be mistaken for some kind of idealistic position. Win…

One wonders why other, well funded games stores can't compete on features and sales pricing with steam? Epic is giving games away but it still doesn't seem worth it to me to switch over because they lack steam input, good achievements, friend systems, good chat, inventory systems to trade items...

I use Heroic Launcher to play Epic Game Store games in the SteamOS interface in my Jovian box. I'm able to use the custom controller stuff with it without much problem, but it doesn't fix the other problems.

You need friends for a lack of friend systems to matter :)

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