Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

811–820 of 960 posts

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#811

Post by girvo »

Numerlor wrote: post #758
CamperBob2 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is.... actually a seriously meaty article from a blog I've never heard of. Thanks for the pointer.

This article about them got published just yesterday... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46124883 There's a lot of misleading information in what they publish, plagiarism, and I believe some information that wouldn't be possible to get without breaking NDAs

> I believe some information that wouldn't be possible to get without breaking NDAs

…why would I care about this in the slightest?

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#812

Post by Libidinalecon »

wat10000 wrote: post #240
woopwoop wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe? But you could have written this same thing in 1999 with OpenAI and Google replaced by Google and Yahoo, respectively.

Google in 1999 was already far superior to Yahoo and other competitors. I don't think OpenAI is in a similar position there. It seems debatable as to whether they're even the best, let alone a massive leap ahead of everyone else the way Google was.

Google was better but it wasn't far superior to AltaVista is what I remember.

Yahoo was always more a directory of websites.

AltaVista was better than Lycos or Yahoo but then Google was faster, gave better results than AltaVista and the very minimal UI was something interesting. I quite liked AltaVista but I never went back to it after using Google either.

I might even say Gemini 3 is better than GPT5 than what Google was to AltaVista. GPT5 feels rather useless to me after my time now with Gemini.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#813

Post by amypetrik8 »

cocogoatmain wrote: post #491
nodja wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-training is just training, it got the name because most models have a post-training stage so to differentiate people call it pre-training. Pre-training: You train on a vast amount of data, as varied and high quality as possible, this will determine the distribution the model can operate with, so LLMs are usually trained on a curated dataset of the whole internet, the output of the pre-training is usually called t…

Want to also add that the model doesn’t know how to respond in a user-> assistant style conversation after it’s pretraining, and it’s a pure text predictor (look at the open source base models) There’s also what is being called mid-training where the model is trained on high(er) quality traces and acts as a bridge between pre and post training

just to go off of this there is also stochastic random overfit retraining process (SRORP). Idea behind SRORP is to avoid overfitting. SRORP will take data points from -any- aspect of the past process with replacment and create usually 3-9 bootstrap models randomly. The median is then taken from all model weights to wipe out outliers. This SRORP polishing -if done carefully- is usually good for a 3-4% gain in all benchmarks

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#814

Post by danielscrubs »

qdotme wrote: post #797
matwood wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Google, Meta, Amazon, etc... can't do software? It's the bread and butter of these companies. The CUDA moat is important to hold off the likes of AMD, but hardware like TPUs for internal use or other big software makers is not a big hurdle. Of course Huang will lean on the software being key because he sees the hardware competition catching up.

Essentially, yes, they haven’t done deep software. Netflix probably comes closest amongst FAANG. Google, Meta, Amazon do “shallow and broad” software. They are quite fast at capturing new markets swiftly, they frequently repackage OpenSource core and add the large amount of business logic to make it work, but essentially follow the market cycles - they hire and layoff on a few year cycle, and the people who work ther…

Well put. I haven’t thought about it like that.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#815

Post by whywhywhywhy »

mips_avatar wrote: post #498
felixfurtak wrote: post #213

OpenAI is basically just Netscape at this point. An innovative product with no means of significant revenue generation. One one side it's up against large competitors with an already established user base and product line that can simply bundle their AI offerings into those products. Google will do just what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and bundle Gemini in for 'Free' with their already other profitable produ…

Gemini can't be bundled for free unless they figure out how to make gemini flash 3.0 significantly cheaper to inference than 2.5

Or put ads in it

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#816

Post by deaux »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #320
bangaladore wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah- given all top AI models are more and more generalists, as time goes on there is less and less reason to use one over another.

It’s really even easier than that. I already do all my work on AWS and use Bedrock that hosts every popular model and its own except for OpenAIs closed source models. I have a reusable library that lets me choose between any of the models I choose to support or any new model in the same family that uses the same request format. Every project I’ve done, it’s a simple matter of changing a config setting and choosing a…

Bedrock hosts Gemini models? Incredibly popular, currently SOTA, biggest competitor to OpenAI, those models? I don't think it does.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#817

Post by bambax »

bgirard wrote: post #290
stack_framer wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can generate $20 billion in ARR this year too! I just need you to give me $100 billion and allow me to sell each of your dollars for 0.2 dollars.

It's a fun trope to repeat but that's not what OpenAI is doing. I get a ton of value from ChatGPT and Codex from my subscription. As long as the inference is not done at a lost this analogy doesn't hold. They're not paying me to use it. They are generating output that is very valuable to me. Much more than my subscription cost. I've been able to help setup cross app automation for my partner's business, remodel my ho…

The parent isn't arguing you're not getting a good value out of the product. It says that users' contributions don't cover production costs, which may or may not be true but doesn't have much to do with how much value they get from it.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#818

Post by Tycho »

staticman2 wrote: post #566
Tycho wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commitments here means money that people have agreed to lend them in future.

Does it mean have agreed to lend them in a binding agreement that OpenAI can sue to enforce?

Yes. The capital is not needed immediately, but they have agreed to provide it if/when called upon in future.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#819

Post by deaux »

echelon wrote: post #335
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really even easier than that. I already do all my work on AWS and use Bedrock that hosts every popular model and its own except for OpenAIs closed source models. I have a reusable library that lets me choose between any of the models I choose to support or any new model in the same family that uses the same request format. Every project I’ve done, it’s a simple matter of changing a config setting and choosing a…

> Bedrock This sounds so enterprise. I've been wanting to talk to people that actually use it. Why use Bedrock instead of OpenRouter, Fal, etc.? Doesn't that tie you down to Amazon forever? Isn't the API worse? Aren't the p95 latencies worse? The costs higher?

99% of people who use it do so because of A. existing agreements wrt compliance and billing (including credits, spend agreements etc.) B. IAM/org permissioning structures that they already have set up.

> Isn't the API worse

No, for general inference the norm is to use provider-agnostic libraries that paper over individual differences. And if you're doing non-standard stuff? Throw the APIs at Opus or something.

> Aren't the p95 latencies worse?

> The costs higher?

The costs for Anthropic models are the same, and the p95 latencies are not higher, they're more stable if anything. The open weights models do look a bit more expensive but as said many businesses don't pay sticker price for AWS spend or they find it worth it anyway.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#820

Post by fragmede »

Libidinalecon wrote: post #812
wat10000 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google in 1999 was already far superior to Yahoo and other competitors. I don't think OpenAI is in a similar position there. It seems debatable as to whether they're even the best, let alone a massive leap ahead of everyone else the way Google was.

Google was better but it wasn't far superior to AltaVista is what I remember. Yahoo was always more a directory of websites. AltaVista was better than Lycos or Yahoo but then Google was faster, gave better results than AltaVista and the very minimal UI was something interesting. I quite liked AltaVista but I never went back to it after using Google either. I might even say Gemini 3 is better than GPT5 than what Googl…

> Google was better but it wasn't far superior to AltaVista is what I remember.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I remember it being significantly better. Alta Vista, you'd have to dig into page 8 before getting to the good stuff. History is written by the victors, as they say, but I remember Google search results being significantly better than Altavista. It wouldn't be until two decades later that I got to work there though.

Post reply on HN