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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

areweanticheatyet.com

451–460 of 485 posts

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming that your operating system doesn't allow any bad drivers (Windows does NOT do this) Windows eventually tends to revoke the certificate of vulnerable drivers. And prior to that, anti-cheats will flag the signature and prevent booting or outright ban for egregious ones. > Something like TEE.fail can be used to read encryption keys for network traffic So, encrypt the memory well then? Also, that attack slows…

> Windows eventually tends to revoke the certificate of vulnerable drivers. And prior to that, anti-cheats will flag the signature and prevent booting or outright ban for egregious ones. I have been loading and using the WinIO driver on windows all the way up to the latest version to read and write any memory I want. I also have a few drivers that are lesser known that are not even flagged by most anti-cheats > So, e…

> I have been loading and using the WinIO driver on windows all the way up to the latest version to read and write any memory I want. I also have a few drivers that are lesser known that are not even flagged by most anti-cheats

I can assure you that you will get banned from a game with a modern anti-cheat using that or you won't even be able to launch the game. Also 'flagged by most anti-cheats' means very little. Most good anti-cheats will delay bans or correlate multiple factors prior to a ban.

> You are going to have to decrypt the memory eventually. Even TEE.fail can get around AMD SEV and Intel's TEE.

You don't have to decrypt it on the RAM wire bus. And the reasons TEE.fail is successful is because they screwed up the crypto as far as I can tell.

> Once you can intercept network traffic and decrypt its game over!

Not sure why you are so hung up on this. You still need to access the memory first. That's what they will detect and prevent. They obviously can't prevent or detect network sniffing if the key is known.

> You do not need an ASIC to interpose DDR5 and steal all the traffic, there are FPGAs that are powerful enough. Once PCIE DMA cards go the way of the dino with IOMMU people will just switch to memory interposers with FPGAs

I've made FPGA designs previously, including custom PCIE DMA cards back in ~2018. It would surprise me if you could find an FPGA capable of reliably sniffing DDDR5 6000+ MT/S without crashing the host system. FPGAs are not nearly as fast as CPUs. Maybe you could somehow hack a FPGA DDR memory interface. But finding one fast enough for DDR5 is probably impossible (or terribly expensive). Maybe https://www.amd.com/en/products/adaptive-socs-and-fpgas/vers... is theoretically possible. But you are looking at a 10k+ chip, if not 20k$+. Such a chip is not going to be easily embeddable and likely requires 10s if not 100s of amps of power delivery.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helldivers might have more to do with preventing people from easily farming super credits versus game integrity.

Yep. I've seen quite a few free-to-play gacha games of the "Dress up your pretty princess in cool clothes and do cute activities in a relaxing, no-stress world." variety that have serious anticheat. There's no leaderboard, no multiplayer, it's totally singleplayer. Why the serious anticheat? To try to prevent you from cheating your way to possession of all the cool clothes for your pretty princess.

burying the lede here killer. the answer is "we want to get paid"

the cool clothes cost $$$ or are randomally found. 0.0000004% chance to get, or pay money for better odds.

or pay lots of money to just get it.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the mouse and keyboard story on PlayStation? The few shooters I play would greatly hinder me if I were stuck on a gamepad.

PS5 completely supports mouse and keyboard at a hardware level. It's up to the game though if they support it. The new Doom games don't support it on console even though M&KB are obviously supported on Windows for example. Other games do like the Quake 1 & 2 remasters. I think even Monster Hunter Wilds does if you really want to.

Not being possible for all games is a major detractor for me.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#454

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I've tried switching to hardware sequencers multiple times. I just don't like it. I came of age making beats in Fruity Loops. I'll gladly drop another 200$ or 300$ just to make things easier. I do have some dreams of making an open source sequencer that runs directly off a raspberry pi. Something like a fully open source MPC. Some projects like this exist, but it's still more difficult than I'd like. Maybe one day in…

> I came of age making beats in Fruity Loops Fruity Loops 4 was my first DAW, and yeah it has been hard to ever leave computer based production behind since then. The only hardware sequencing that has ever clicked for me is the Polyend Tracker, which is just a tracker so I hesitate to even call it hardware sequencing. I also dig Elektron's sequencing, but its an entirely different headspace I have to spend time in to…

I actually have a Polyend Tracker.

It is a VERY weird device to say the least. I found myself not really enjoying it. The issue with hardware is when you want a final result mastering and splitting up tracks is like teeth extraction.

Vs using software where you can just export stems and hand it off to someone else.

However, with software you end up spending a lot of money on non tangable goods.

I can sell my Polyend. Selling a software license normally isn't possible.

Plus say you own a license to version 10.x. The day version 11.x comes out, the previous version might be worthless.

Vs vintage audio gear which might actually go up in value.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does mean that a signed OS image is running, so demonstrates that the kernel was unaltered at start-up. It also demonstrates further levels of driver signing robustness.

I'm not really familiar with Secure Boot too much. Researching suggests that users can add their own keys so they are trusted by UEFI. Won't this resolve for linux users that must have secure boot on?

No, it's not a given that users can add their own keys - certainly in an anticheat scenario they probably couldn't, or at least if they did then key attestation would stop working.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I came of age making beats in Fruity Loops Fruity Loops 4 was my first DAW, and yeah it has been hard to ever leave computer based production behind since then. The only hardware sequencing that has ever clicked for me is the Polyend Tracker, which is just a tracker so I hesitate to even call it hardware sequencing. I also dig Elektron's sequencing, but its an entirely different headspace I have to spend time in to…

I actually have a Polyend Tracker. It is a VERY weird device to say the least. I found myself not really enjoying it. The issue with hardware is when you want a final result mastering and splitting up tracks is like teeth extraction. Vs using software where you can just export stems and hand it off to someone else. However, with software you end up spending a lot of money on non tangable goods. I can sell my Polyend.…

I was pretty surprised that the Polyend Tracker could spit out channel stems at least. I ended up selling mine when I needed some extra money to made ends meet, will buy one again eventually.

>However, with software you end up spending a lot of money on non tangable goods.

Yeah it sucks that this also keeps us locked into platforms for so much longer. I've been buying Reason updates for a decade, and own a bunch of Korgs VST releases of their hardware synths (Op-Six, Modwave, etc). If I can at least get the Korg stuff running on Linux one day that would be nice. It might be possible but I haven't tried.

>Plus say you own a license to version 10.x. The day version 11.x comes out, the previous version might be worthless.

Shout out to Renoise for being affordable and you get a whole versions worth of updates. Which after over a decade I still haven't had to pay again, but will gladly when the time comes. Plus I can even run it on a raspberry pi now.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#457
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

We lost a lot of other things as well. Like modding and especially maps. It doesn't matter how good the game developers are, someone out there is could make a better map. The studios took control of everything, and their answer is to rootkit our computers, and to buy more DLC if we want another map. Personally, I don't accept the premise that such studio control is necessary for me to have fun playing a game. I espec…

Make a list of all game genres and modes that sprung out of player modification

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows eventually tends to revoke the certificate of vulnerable drivers. And prior to that, anti-cheats will flag the signature and prevent booting or outright ban for egregious ones. I have been loading and using the WinIO driver on windows all the way up to the latest version to read and write any memory I want. I also have a few drivers that are lesser known that are not even flagged by most anti-cheats > So, e…

> I have been loading and using the WinIO driver on windows all the way up to the latest version to read and write any memory I want. I also have a few drivers that are lesser known that are not even flagged by most anti-cheats I can assure you that you will get banned from a game with a modern anti-cheat using that or you won't even be able to launch the game. Also 'flagged by most anti-cheats' means very little. Mo…

> I can assure you that you will get banned from a game with a modern anti-cheat using that or you won't even be able to launch the game. Also 'flagged by most anti-cheats' means very little. Most good anti-cheats will delay bans or correlate multiple factors prior to a ban.

Most of what I said is a large oversimplification on the matter. Anticheats absolutely do make use of heuristic patterns to flag drivers that are correlated with known cheaters. Drivers are pretty well flagged now days by anticheats but Windows does virtually next to nothing to prevent people from abusing these RWEverything drivers

>Not sure why you are so hung up on this. You still need to access the memory first. That's what they will detect and prevent. They obviously can't prevent or detect network sniffing if the key is known.

The point is that you don't need a very complicated or long-lived exploit to yoink those keys if you know where to look.

The overarching idea here is that as long as you have physical access to hardware it is going to be very difficult to prevent these kinds of attacks without serious vertical integration and from who? Microsoft really don't seem to care much, CPU/Motherboard/RAM vendors are benefiting from an open market with shared standards and anti-cheat/games do not have enough purchasing power to push over consumers.

I can't comment much on FPGAs because I don't know a huge amount about them so il take your point. There are also countless side channel attacks and ways to leak data from your memory in completely unintended way eg; cache timing or faulty speculative execution

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#459
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could miss out on like... 5 games. Competitive games on a controller would be a much larger trade off than dual booting to me.

On Xbox at least Keyboard / Mouse support is decent. I played Fortnite and Minecraft this way for a while. Personal preference, but I'd far rather have a separate device dedicated to gaming than my kernel hacked by anti cheat. https://www.purexbox.com/guides/all-xbox-games-with-mouse-an...

The problem is that consoles also tend to have much worse support for modding.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still playing Battlefield 4 (2013) on user-hosted servers. Right now. The only way that "around the world" can be relevant is ping, and the best way to manage ping is by sorting a list of servers by ping. Cheating is an arms race that no one needs to participate in . Moderation was a perfectly good workaround until major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting.

What, 2000 players? 5000? Moderating that game is multiple orders of magnitude off of major titles. No Battlefield game is even in the top 100 of esports earnings.

My point is that player-moderation scales, while corporate moderation does not. The fact that there are more players on corporate moderated servers only makes this reality more significant.
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