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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#451

Post by nephihaha »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #267
observationist wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most average people assume competence and good faith from people in charge. Most people don't question, aren't skeptical, and go through life in a fog. That's not most people here, but it's like Gell-Mann amnesia applied to politics. 99% of the time, when politicians put forth a plan to do things in a domain you're competent in, they look like morons. It's exceedingly rare for them to do things well. People trust ele…

Having lived in lower trust vs higher trust societies, you can see it in how people assume their leaders think. High trust places like Sweden, people have pretty high faith in their leaders to do the right thing. Personally, I much prefer quality of life in a higher trust society. It is exhausting needing to second guess everyone everywhere all the time!

In Sweden, something like 40% of the population work directly or indirectly for Wallenberg family owned companies according to one stat. That will exclude the businesses who make money off people employed by them. So who is really in charge of Sweden?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#452

Post by hexbin010 »

amarant wrote: post #353
hexbin010 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to see how it's a good thing for Sweden. I disagree convenience is a good thing. We can all play "I struggle to see" and throw out weak arguments but it does not advance the topic

You still haven't presented even a weak argument for how it infringes on privacy. You just said "privacy" and pretended that's an argument

> You still haven't presented even a weak argument for how it infringes on privacy.

NB I was calling out your weak arguments. I wasn't attempting to do something that isn't my job ;)

For countries introducing digital ID etc, it's for the advocates to present a strong argument and evidence how it will respect privacy, how it will remain secure etc beyond "trust us bro" and "I can't see how it wouldn't be secure"

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#453

Post by georgefrowny »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #266
phatfish wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like people want to hand over scans of their passport and/or driving license to random businesses again and again, every time the need to prove who they are; and have their ID documents littered in Outlook mailboxes or company file shares with zero permissions. Or be forced to install yet another ID app from a private service that requires you have an iPhone or "compatible" Android. The debate about this in the…

Can anyone explain the history of "self ID" rules and laws in the UK? It seems like you do not have to prove your ID to the police. It is the reverse. As an outsider, I don't understand it.

Basically there is no universal ID system. You are not required to have a passport or driving licence, which are the usual IDs. There is an optional kind of ID you can use to prove your age if you don't or can't have those. Even if you do have one of these, you don't have to show it to the police if they stop you. The police can ask your name, but unless the police has "reasonable grounds" to search you, you can just walk away.

This is at odds to much of the EU where carrying ID is normal and you can be fined for not having it on you in public.

Proving your identity to a company usually involves a copy of passport and a recent utility bill. Sometimes you need to get a "professional" (doctor, lawyer) to write "I certify this is a valid copy" on it. Financial systems often use your NI number (think SSN) as the ID factor for things like KYC, the NHS uses a separate number. There are several fairly mysterious companies that provide this service to companies who need to know like solicitors (you upload the photos, they authenticte it "somehow", hopefully they look after it, presumably they can be audited I turn out to be a money launderer using a fake document). Getting a passport is a bit of a performance as you have to bootstrap the trust chain by getting someone you know to submit their documents and vouch for your photos.

It also means that, to use a hot-button subject recently, the police have limited practical ways to prove a right to work, unless they have strong intelligence that a particular place is using illegal labour and do a raid. The current tactic seems to be arresting people for illegal e-bikes, where they have reasonable grounds for an arrest and can then get the name and do the immigration checks at that point.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#454

Post by amriksohata »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #155
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

> I'm shocked India is currently run by a nationalist regime headed by the so called "butcher of Gujarat"[1], there isn't much that would shock me wrt to that lot's totalitarian tendencies. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Narendra_Modi

This was proven not true many years ago by the Supreme Court well before he was in power. Just rage bait.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#456

Post by b3lvedere »

shevy-java wrote: post #359

It's always the same - governments suddenly wanting to spy on people. We need a world where this can be guaranteed to not happen. We need 3D printing everywhere, without restrictions or payload attached.

"We need a world where this can be guaranteed to not happen"

I doubt such a world exists in this current universe.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#457

Post by Tor3 »

nephihaha wrote: post #441
amarant wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

The problem isn't where digital ID starts, it's where it ends. It will start by being benign enough, and end with the ability to cut off dissidents in an instant. I'm aware that some Swedes are already getting microchipped. If you want to be branded and tracked by the state, that is your choice... Don't force it on the rest of us.

"I'm aware that some Swedes are already getting microchipped."

If you mean Swedish dogs and cats, then yes. Otherwise, no.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#458

Post by kragen »

__rito__ wrote: post #15

I wouldn’t venture in the direction that many here will take. I will point out that India have the highest number of victims of cyber-fraud. I personally know many people who have lost significant sums through social engineering attacks. The money is transferred to multiple mule accounts and physical cash is siphoned off to the fraudsters by the owners of those account. They choose helpless, illiterate, village dwell…

Having a single CrowdStrike-like point of failure will probably make these problems worse overall, but burstier.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#459

Post by kragen »

roncesvalles wrote: post #56
marginalx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you trust the government to only use it for good purposes? and not to track people who may be protesting or belong to opposing political/religious/cultural views? We know based on historical pegasus complaints that this trust has to be earned and can't be given. There are lots of ways to solve for this, mandating that these companies own the identification process through their systems, report misuse, govern apps…

Automatic mistrust of the government is a pretty juvenile take. Yes there are tons of ways, and having OEMs preload an app is the easiest one in a country of 1.1B mobile connections.

Automatic mistrust of the government is the only sensible point of view and the bedrock foundation of liberalism and democracy. Any other attitude toward government is fatally naïve.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#460

Post by faidit »

vbezhenar wrote: post #424
cheema33 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the payoff and endless iterations resources will be thrown at it and it would eventually get better. Allow the user to download and install it if it turns out to be great. Do not shove things down people's throat against their wishes, like an authoritarian govt. Otherwise you start to resemble Stalin's Soviet Union.

Stalin did not force anyone to install apps. He was actually a good ruler. He took over the country with a plough and left it with a nuclear missile.

The nuclear missile was developed under Khrushchev, who was actually decent.

Stalin brought back the Czarist internal passport system, Russian chauvinism, racial discrimination and prison slavery, enriched a new oligarchy, his police killed most of Lenin's politburo and thousands of other good Communists on false charges, and he almost lost Moscow to a fascist incel armed with Panzer IIs, despite the superiority of the Red Army. Also he sold out revolutions in Spain, Greece, China etc. in pursuit of trade deals with capitalist countries that hated the USSR. The great achievements of the Soviet people and their planned economy were made in spite of Stalin's corrupt and oppressive mis-leadership.

On the matter of India. Stalin also betrayed the Indian revolution by trying to sabotage Bose, ordering the CPI to collaborate with British imperialism, and murdering founders of the CPI like Virendranath Chattopadhyaya, Abani Mukherji and GAK Lokhani.

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