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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#331

Post by varnaud »

dmayle wrote: post #262
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

The only actual problem with cheating is leaderboards. When you have accurate matchmaking, you will be playing against other players of a similar skill level. If you we're playing in single-player mode, it wouldn't bother you that some of the players were better than others. Whether the person you're playing against is as good as you because they have aim assist, while you have a 17g mouse and twitch reflexes shouldn…

I play online FPS with friends for fun. I don't care about leaderboards, but I know people that do and don't want to take them away from them.

You can't have accurate matchmaking and allow cheating. People cheat for a variety of reasons, at lot of cheaters are just online bullies that enjoy tormenting other players. In a low ELO lobbies, you would have cheaters that have top tier aim activated only if they lose too much, making the experience very inconsistent.

Top tier ELO would revolve around on how the server handle peeker advantage and which cheater as the fastest cheating software. It's an interesting technical challenge, but not a fun game. As soon as a non cheating player is in view of a cheating player, the non cheating player dies. That doesn't make for a fun game mechanic.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#332

Post by vablings »

maccard wrote: post #271
vablings wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite had this same issue when BR was first released. It was promptly fixed after cheaters started abusing it by adding more stringent checks.

Fortnite has a fairly invasive root kit level anti cheat too, don’t forget.

The invasive kernel root kit came months after they fixed the netcode abuses.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#333

Post by commakozzi »

AJ007 wrote: post #304
ndriscoll wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the stakes not still zero? Aren't like 99.9% of players not at all competitive in any meaningful sense basically by definition? Like if Counter-Strike has 1M active players, and you are in the 99.9%-ile, you are still only in the top 1,000. Do people watch the rank 1000 players? Are they making a career out of it? What fraction of the player-base thinks they are actually competitive vs. is just playing a game?

The problem is the reverse of what is being argued here. The stakes are high because of how much money these companies are making off of DLCs/in-app purchases. The game operator thus has an incentive to ensure that high value customers can't be banned by third parties. Instead of just being banned, the player is suspended 24 hours or something, and then they come back.

Came here to find this comment. It is NOT about matchmaking and/or "protecting the incomes" of competitive players AT ALL! It is solely about protecting these games' in-game shops and associated economies. The real comp scenes are all done on LAN anyway, with entirely different anti-cheat setups.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#334

Post by officeplant »

999900000999 wrote: post #236
i80and wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a pretty prolific gamer, but at the start of the year I finally kicked Windows to the curb. It's been fine . Surprisingly few games I'm interested in to begin with have anticheat that doesn't work on Linux, and it's comforting to know games aren't allowed to just shove trash into kernel space at will.

The thing is I still need Windows for music production. Linux will never compete here.

The sad thing is linux, like MacOS, is often vastly superior for audio routing and latency.

Personally I gave up all my audio productions tools that don't support Linux, but since music/audio work is just a hobby for me that's easier to do. I do miss my old DAWs (Ableton/Reason), and I miss a lot of VST plugins.

Not everyone can just re-base their setup on linux (for me Renoise & VCV Rack), but I can get plenty of joy out of a complete lack of Windows, license management crapware, invasive rootkit level DRM, etc.

Side benefit: it pushes me to get some more external hardware, but I have to do investigations on how some companies do firmware updates which often require MacOS/Windows or Chrome Browser (fucking webmidi looking at you Novation)

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#335

Post by officeplant »

999900000999 wrote: post #310
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitwig is available for Linux, but I don't know what the limitations are.

A lot of VSTS aren't going to work even with tricks like WINE. They often have complicated auth systems, etc. I don't really want to learn a new DAW.

A lot of people give high praise to Yabridge, but I myself haven't tried using it for my existing VST library and just found alternative plugins that work with linux.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#336

Post by commakozzi »

i80and wrote: post #126
999900000999 wrote: post #119

I'm ordering a new laptop to work on LLM stuff, and while I thought about jumping through the hoops to get Linux running with secure boot... I had a realization, it's a cold day in hell when someone else is going to tell me what I can run on my computer. All the latest multiplayer games are now requiring secure boot on Win11 as well I'm actually wary of all these anti-cheats, they're literally hyperinvasive maleware.…

I'm a pretty prolific gamer, but at the start of the year I finally kicked Windows to the curb. It's been fine . Surprisingly few games I'm interested in to begin with have anticheat that doesn't work on Linux, and it's comforting to know games aren't allowed to just shove trash into kernel space at will.

I dropped my Game Pass sub immediately after they upped the sub price and unplugged my Xbox Series X. I have a Bazzite machine, but I've had issues with the NVidia drivers and not enough patience to deal with it. So i'm currently ONLY using my Steam Deck OLED for gaming. When i want to play big AAA games at my desk (SD in docked mode), i'll use GeForce Now and all of it has been a wonderful experience, even the online "competitive" FPS games like BF6. Much better than my experience on either Windows or Xbox. I'll never go back... and i'm impatiently waiting on my Steam Machine!

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#337

Post by jdashg »

Kuinox wrote: post #204
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Did you played in this era ? - If you were too good on some server, you'd get banned. - If the admin doesn't know well cheating, he could tolerate something that was obvious cheating. - Cheaters could just change server often. It used to be easy to just ban peoples yes, and it was as easy to switch servers. Plus on most competitive game today, you have custom lobbies, which do exactly what you want, and there is a re…

I did indeed play in the era LanceH is talking about, and I agree with them! We had many thriving communities with no serious cheating problems because of community moderation.

Yes, there were poorly moderated servers, but you could simply leave and try a different community until you found one that clicked for you. When you require equal moderation everywhere, you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#338

Post by Kuinox »

hamdingers wrote: post #324
Kuinox wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not functionally equivalent, unless there are games I'm not familiar with where custom lobbies are published in a list for strangers to join. Lots of the mosts played competitive games have that, or third party websites/discords that have links to custom lobbies.

Being able to make friends off-platform and then play with them is obviously not what we're talking about. I have to conclude you're unfamiliar with what multiplayer gaming was like when servers were the norm.

> I have to conclude you're unfamiliar with what multiplayer gaming was like when servers were the norm.

Did you even played a single game competitively ? The fact you keep pushing for server browser tell me that no, you need communities on something else. You likely forgot the hassle that server browser were, and forgot that lots of games didn't had a server browser.

LFG communities were important and excluding this shows you were only playing casually, forgot all the problems servers browser had.

Do you even remember, that you could get malware by joining servers in a server list ?!?

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#339

Post by ok_dad »

dmayle wrote: post #262
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

The only actual problem with cheating is leaderboards. When you have accurate matchmaking, you will be playing against other players of a similar skill level. If you we're playing in single-player mode, it wouldn't bother you that some of the players were better than others. Whether the person you're playing against is as good as you because they have aim assist, while you have a 17g mouse and twitch reflexes shouldn…

Try playing Rust without anti-cheat and you will immediately change your tune. It isn't fun playing a game where you can lose everything to a guy who can cause bullets to bend around objects.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#340

Post by guizadillas »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #294
thomastjeffery wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still playing Battlefield 4 (2013) on user-hosted servers. Right now. The only way that "around the world" can be relevant is ping, and the best way to manage ping is by sorting a list of servers by ping. Cheating is an arms race that no one needs to participate in . Moderation was a perfectly good workaround until major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting.

What, 2000 players? 5000? Moderating that game is multiple orders of magnitude off of major titles. No Battlefield game is even in the top 100 of esports earnings.

I wouldn't measure anticheat success by esports earning
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