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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#261

Post by organsnyder »

t-writescode wrote: post #258
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

How did it work in the early Steam (CS 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, CS:S) and GameSpy days?

I think a big part of it is the stakes were just lower. There wasn't money and careers in it the same way there is with egaming now.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#262

Post by dmayle »

LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

The only actual problem with cheating is leaderboards.

When you have accurate matchmaking, you will be playing against other players of a similar skill level. If you we're playing in single-player mode, it wouldn't bother you that some of the players were better than others.

Whether the person you're playing against is as good as you because they have aim assist, while you have a 17g mouse and twitch reflexes shouldn't matter. You're both playing at equivalent skill levels.

The only reason it matters to anyone is that they want their skills to be recognized as better than someone else's. Take down the leaderboards, and bring back the fun.

I say, let the people cheat.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#263

Post by thomastjeffery »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #235
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

People are still playing Battlefield 4 (2013) on user-hosted servers. Right now.

The only way that "around the world" can be relevant is ping, and the best way to manage ping is by sorting a list of servers by ping.

Cheating is an arms race that no one needs to participate in. Moderation was a perfectly good workaround until major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#264

Post by hollandheese »

Levitz wrote: post #62
__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

It's a numbers issue. How often do people encounter cheaters while playing Switch games online?

Try playing Pokémon Legends Z-A multiplayer.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#265

Post by brendoelfrendo »

hamdingers wrote: post #257
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were playing on a server you owned or for which you had ban permissions, you could do something about it. Otherwise, you had to hope that an admin was online to ban the cheater. If no one was around to take action, your option was to... sit there, take your L, and ask people to make reports (to the admins). You had the option to hop around between servers until you found one that didn't have cheaters, but is t…

You were not helpless if the admin wasn't on, votekick has existed for 25+ years. Believe it or not us old folks who played during this time had ways to address these issues.

Votekick still exists in modern games, too.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#266

Post by thomastjeffery »

LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Absolutely!

The entire narrative of "cheating" is a giant misdirect. People don't actually care about cheating, they care about fun. If a player is making the game less fun, it does not matter how.

The real problem is that ~10 years ago major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting. This means that the responsibility of moderation is now in their hands. The only way this problem can ever be resolved is by giving the authority to moderate servers back to players. Until then, the responsibility to moderate will be unmet, no matter how fascist and authoritarian game studios become. Fascism cannot guarantee fun!

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#267

Post by amanaplanacanal »

iknowstuff wrote: post #254
jszymborski wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said this about gaming too... all it takes is Valve-esque sponsor

It takes a stable ABI and a single target for apps. Don’t expect music production to ever show up for gnu/linux. Maybe Android

Bitwig is available for Linux, but I don't know what the limitations are.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#268

Post by hparadiz »

Kuinox wrote: post #238
hparadiz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then at least you could do something about it. Now if there's an obvious cheater you just kinda sit there and take your L, and ask people to make reports.

> Back then at least you could do something about it. Back then, the most common option taken was leaving the server to find another one.

This is drudging up some formative memories. In the counter-strike / TF2 communities you'd have servers that would grant vote kick rights with more playtime and some of those regulars would then apply for mod rights. It worked quite well.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#270

Post by Kuinox »

hparadiz wrote: post #268
Kuinox wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back then at least you could do something about it. Back then, the most common option taken was leaving the server to find another one.

This is drudging up some formative memories. In the counter-strike / TF2 communities you'd have servers that would grant vote kick rights with more playtime and some of those regulars would then apply for mod rights. It worked quite well.

It still doesn't solve the unfair votekick problem. People with more play time, doesn't have necessarly the abilities nor tools to judge if someone is cheating. Take a look at the trackmania community, some cheaters are caught years later, because they played it smart. Some cheating can't only be observed by looking at the statistics, or hard proof of cheating being ran.
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