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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#211

Post by squigz »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #205
ratelimitsteve wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

counterpoint: my 45 min 4v4 game gets terminally disrupted if I can't run the game on my device

Sure, but that's a trade-off everyone already enjoying the game might be fine with if it means a better experience. That's how bad cheating is.

> Sure, but that's a trade-off everyone already enjoying the game might be fine with if it means a better experience.

Does it mean a better experience though? This isn't like, a theoretical GP is talking about. We don't have to imagine if

> That's how bad cheating is.

Seems like the answer is no?

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#212

Post by shmerl »

SirMaster wrote: post #142
shmerl wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Client side anti cheats is a lazy excuse why they don't want to spend on server side anti cheats anyway.

How do you stop a client-side wallhack with server side anti-cheat?

Improve your server AI to catch weird behavior. Client side approach with this malware idea is simply unacceptable.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#213

Post by jillesvangurp »

It will be interesting to see how this evolves. It used to be that game developers could safely ignore Linux. But with a growing number of Steam OS, Steam Deck, and Linux + Steam users gaming, it's going to get increasingly more painful in terms of revenue to be telling those users "our game only works on Windows" and just miss out on the revenue and deal with the angry users, forums full of users complaining the game doesn't work, etc.

It might only be a few percent of overall users. But a few percent of a billion $ is a couple of tens of millions. That's a steep price to pay for anti-cheat code.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#214

Post by hamdingers »

Kuinox wrote: post #204
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Did you played in this era ? - If you were too good on some server, you'd get banned. - If the admin doesn't know well cheating, he could tolerate something that was obvious cheating. - Cheaters could just change server often. It used to be easy to just ban peoples yes, and it was as easy to switch servers. Plus on most competitive game today, you have custom lobbies, which do exactly what you want, and there is a re…

All true, but of course you're missing the player agency component that renders those issues moot. If any of the above happens, you can simply find another server.

Private games (now called "custom lobbies") were available back then too, they're not equivalent to a public server browser.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#215

Post by Buttons840 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #188
Buttons840 wrote: post #166

The only multiplayer game I currently play is Beyond All Reason (a RTS game). It's a free and open-source game, so creating a cheat client would be especially easy. But I've never encountered cheating. I think there's a few reasons for this: 1) The playerbase is small and there is no auto-matchmaking, just a traditional list of servers. This results in the same group of people always playing together. People don't wa…

Seems more likely that the cause is that RTS isn't a popular genre among gamers and Beyond All Reason is obscure[1] even among RTSes. There's no fame or money to make it worth investing in cheating. [1] Among the general public, not RTS aficionados. Which is unfortunate; Total Annihilation and its spiritual descendants like BAR deserve more love.

People have been banned for cheating, so cheats exist.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#216

Post by archerx »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #97
__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

If people cheat in the switch, they can blame Nintendo. If people cheat in PC, they can blame the anticheat. Without anticheat, they have to take the blame.

I still blame the devs of the games.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#217

Post by Kuinox »

hamdingers wrote: post #214
Kuinox wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you played in this era ? - If you were too good on some server, you'd get banned. - If the admin doesn't know well cheating, he could tolerate something that was obvious cheating. - Cheaters could just change server often. It used to be easy to just ban peoples yes, and it was as easy to switch servers. Plus on most competitive game today, you have custom lobbies, which do exactly what you want, and there is a re…

All true, but of course you're missing the player agency component that renders those issues moot. If any of the above happens, you can simply find another server. Private games (now called "custom lobbies") were available back then too, they're not equivalent to a public server browser.

They are functionally equivalent for the player. The problem with player hosted servers is that it was very hard to get a fair and balanced competitive match, where now it's extremely common with matchmaking on servers hosted by the game company.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#218

Post by ttimebomb »

cornichon622 wrote: post #209

I don't understand why multiplayer games don't run more on the server. If the server runs the game, then sends to client only what it needs to display the game and play sounds, the client doesn't have more information than necessary and a whole class of cheats is eliminated. There is no need for a client to know where an enemy player is if the player won't be shown on screen (wall hacks). I think World of Tanks runs…

Some do, but its much more expensive for game companies and adds latency to some elements. Its generally a much harder problem for first-person shooter games - an enemy might be hiding behind a wall but the game needs to know the position of that enemy anyway because the player might move around the corner and see that enemy before the server updates or their game client might need to play noise that enemy is making faintly even if they are far away.

Players of these games are sometimes running their games at high framerates like 240fps which is much higher than the tick rates of these games too.

Plus it doesn't solve all the possible cheats that are out there, as there are some like aim-hacks that don't need any server information to work.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#219

Post by hamdingers »

sofixa wrote: post #168
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

> caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server? I'm definitely one of them, and one of my earliest tech memories was setting up a CS 1.6 game server for a bunch of classmates (and being unable to play myself because the computer had nowhere ne…

This isn't a problem because any given server can support hundreds or thousands of weekly players, so only 0.1% of your playerbase needs to run a server.

We had this, it worked, for years. I'm baffled by all the posters saying it won't, because it did.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#220

Post by archerx »

j-bos wrote: post #48
__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

This. Even kernel level anti-c-spyware can't stop a cheap vision model hokked to a mouse, see youtube for examples from simple auto input up to full on elctromuscular stimulation.

Yes the channel “Basically homeless” has a few variations on this. Using electrodes to move your muscles to more practical a bot that moves your mouse pad for you to give you perfect aim. No anti cheat can detect that because there is nothing to detect.
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