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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#201

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

Q6T46nT668w6i3m wrote: post #136
999900000999 wrote: post #119

I'm ordering a new laptop to work on LLM stuff, and while I thought about jumping through the hoops to get Linux running with secure boot... I had a realization, it's a cold day in hell when someone else is going to tell me what I can run on my computer. All the latest multiplayer games are now requiring secure boot on Win11 as well I'm actually wary of all these anti-cheats, they're literally hyperinvasive maleware.…

I was in a similar situation and ended up buying a PS5. It ended up being exactly what I wanted.

How's the mouse and keyboard story on PlayStation? The few shooters I play would greatly hinder me if I were stuck on a gamepad.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#202

Post by Ygg2 »

isgb wrote: post #197
chownie wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather my 45 minute game be disrupted and the user booted permanently by moderators VS every game be disrupted for months while the developers try and work out which parts of my privacy they can invade to maybe hopefully boot the cheaters.

Problem is that requires moderators, that get paid, with money.

Not really. In mostly player-run lobbies, one of the players would kick any found cheaters. It's not exacts science, but it's what people did.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#203

Post by ratelimitsteve »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #177
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

counterpoint: my 45 min 4v4 game gets terminally disrupted if I can't run the game on my device

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#204

Post by Kuinox »

LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Did you played in this era ?

- If you were too good on some server, you'd get banned.

- If the admin doesn't know well cheating, he could tolerate something that was obvious cheating.

- Cheaters could just change server often.

It used to be easy to just ban peoples yes, and it was as easy to switch servers.

Plus on most competitive game today, you have custom lobbies, which do exactly what you want, and there is a reason why only a minority of players uses it.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#205

Post by hombre_fatal »

ratelimitsteve wrote: post #203
hombre_fatal wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

counterpoint: my 45 min 4v4 game gets terminally disrupted if I can't run the game on my device

Sure, but that's a trade-off everyone already enjoying the game might be fine with if it means a better experience. That's how bad cheating is.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#206

Post by Kuinox »

stronglikedan wrote: post #199
isgb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that requires moderators, that get paid, with money.

more likely volunteers when they're running their own servers

volunteers which aren't necessarly pro player and cant distinguish good players from smart cheaters.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#207

Post by squigz »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #198
squigz wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. The difference is there is usually an existing level of trust between people playing on a private server. Usually your group would know ahead of time if someone is going to potentially be a…

If I already have a preformed 4v4, then I don't need anticheat. The question is what to do about the rest of the time for everyone else. Shopping around private servers and dealing with individual server admin quirks is a regression from matchmaking UX that Starcraft had in the late 90s or that Halo 2 had in the early 2000s.

Why not both?

If you wanna matchmake, great, go ahead.

If you want to run a private server, you can do that too.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#208

Post by az09mugen »

bflesch wrote: post #131

As most of you know, these anti-cheat systems are functionally equivalent to rootkits. There is zero visibility into how these privileges are used for targeted attacks. Due to geographic location of the large game companies this has a geopolitical angle. Fingerprinting of devices and the networks they are in provides a lot of metadata that is most definitely fed into their intelligence apparatus.

Yes, and more than that, the kernel-level-anticheats are unable to spot someone using a Cronus ( hardware aim assist among other stuff [0] ).

I'm never going to play again online on any FPS because that whole incoherent bubble of crap disgusts me.

The multiplayer games community is toxic, and players are focused on success whatever the cost is. And I don't even want to touch the question of match making with a 10-foot-pole. Local, self-hosted or in small community is the best.

[0] https://cronus.shop/

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#209

Post by cornichon622 »

I don't understand why multiplayer games don't run more on the server. If the server runs the game, then sends to client only what it needs to display the game and play sounds, the client doesn't have more information than necessary and a whole class of cheats is eliminated. There is no need for a client to know where an enemy player is if the player won't be shown on screen (wall hacks). I think World of Tanks runs this way, and I've never encountered much cheating on there.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#210

Post by keyringlight »

squigz wrote: post #191
sofixa wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server? I'm definitely one of them, and one of my earliest tech memories was setting up a CS 1.6 game server for a bunch of classmates (and being unable to play myself because the computer had nowhere ne…

> Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server? Let's put it differently: What % of people among those who program are interested in maintaining open source software? A very low %, and yet it's a thriving ecosystem. To bring it back to gaming: How many people who game are interested in modding, or creating models/maps/etc? Again, a very low %, and yet...

Running/renting hardware and connectivity and administrating a service and development are slightly different.
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