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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#191

Post by squigz »

sofixa wrote: post #168
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

> caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server? I'm definitely one of them, and one of my earliest tech memories was setting up a CS 1.6 game server for a bunch of classmates (and being unable to play myself because the computer had nowhere ne…

> Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server?

Let's put it differently: What % of people among those who program are interested in maintaining open source software?

A very low %, and yet it's a thriving ecosystem.

To bring it back to gaming: How many people who game are interested in modding, or creating models/maps/etc? Again, a very low %, and yet...

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#192

Post by chownie »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #177
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

I would much rather my 45 minute game be disrupted and the user booted permanently by moderators VS every game be disrupted for months while the developers try and work out which parts of my privacy they can invade to maybe hopefully boot the cheaters.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#193

Post by pynappo »

GCUMstlyHarmls wrote: post #85
Jhsto wrote: post #71

Cheats aside, are there any competitive games that include Uber-like rating system? Meaning that you'd need to provide feedback whether you'd play with your opponents/teammates again after a game.

Overwatch (1) had something like that. Not sure if Overwatch (2) still has it, or how it functions now. In higher ELO, people would target good players with "avoid player"^1, effectively soft-banning those people from match making because the pool was small enough. They would still get put in matches eventually but their queues would blow out a lot. From memory it did not have an explicit "match me with this person"…

Overwatch 2 has a simplified endorsement system. It's just an optional thumbs up instead of endorsement for 1 of 3 reasons (roughly something like sportsmanship, good teammate, or good leader).

The avoid system is now more flexible. You have 3 pin slots for people you never really want to see on your team again, plus 12(?) regular avoid slots to avoid people for a week at a time like usual. In situations where too many avoid conflicts occur and the matchmaker struggles to create a match (e.g. high ELO), it will start to ignore people's avoid slots in order of (last regular avoid > first regular avoid > pin slots), i think.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#194

Post by squigz »

Quimoniz wrote: post #186
wavemode wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many forms of cheating revolve around modding the game locally so that certain textures can be seen through walls, so you always know where opponents are. So you aren't breaking any laws of physics, you are just able to make much better tactical decisions. The obvious solution would be, just don't send data to the player's client about enemies that are behind walls. But this is a surprisingly hard thing to engineer i…

> So you aren't breaking any laws of physics, you are just able to make much better tactical decisions. With respect I'd like to disagree on this subtly. A lot of games have the client send their cursor position at relatively frequent updates/packages (i.e. sub-second). So the server knows pretty precisely in which direction and to which object a player is looking. This in turn can be readily used upon when using wal…

You very, very quickly learn not to look like you use wall-hacks.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#195

Post by 63stack »

360MustangScope wrote: post #88
63stack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way to make anticheat that can't be bypassed, regardless of OS. All of the anticheat games today have cheaters.

It doesn’t have to be 100%. The point is to make it inconvenient. The majority of people will not do it if it is inconvenient. Thats the point to many things in life that you just make it more difficult and most people won’t be bothered to attempt to circumvent whatever it is. There will still be circumventers but it is will be less than if you just said fuck it.

Sure, and my point is that making it inconvenient for other people to cheat is a way too low bar for us to accept rootkits on our systems.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#196

Post by rererereferred »

sofixa wrote: post #168
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

> caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers Let's be real, what % people among those who game are interested in running their own game server? I'm definitely one of them, and one of my earliest tech memories was setting up a CS 1.6 game server for a bunch of classmates (and being unable to play myself because the computer had nowhere ne…

There are games I play were one of the players' machines becomes the server. In some it's transparent to them, you just join their world or lobby, in others it's explicit and you even have to input the host's IP to enter.

Standalone servers you need to run separately and care for are much more rare.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#197

Post by isgb »

chownie wrote: post #192
hombre_fatal wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

I would much rather my 45 minute game be disrupted and the user booted permanently by moderators VS every game be disrupted for months while the developers try and work out which parts of my privacy they can invade to maybe hopefully boot the cheaters.

Problem is that requires moderators, that get paid, with money.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#198

Post by hombre_fatal »

squigz wrote: post #189
hombre_fatal wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

> By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. The difference is there is usually an existing level of trust between people playing on a private server. Usually your group would know ahead of time if someone is going to potentially be a…

If I already have a preformed 4v4, then I don't need anticheat.

The question is what to do about the rest of the time for everyone else. Shopping around private servers and dealing with individual server admin quirks is a regression from matchmaking UX that Starcraft had in the late 90s or that Halo 2 had in the early 2000s.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#199

Post by stronglikedan »

isgb wrote: post #197
chownie wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather my 45 minute game be disrupted and the user booted permanently by moderators VS every game be disrupted for months while the developers try and work out which parts of my privacy they can invade to maybe hopefully boot the cheaters.

Problem is that requires moderators, that get paid, with money.

more likely volunteers when they're running their own servers

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#200

Post by hombre_fatal »

chownie wrote: post #192
hombre_fatal wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if custom game servers were a preferable experience, which I would argue against, it doesn't really do anything for this problem. By the time you have to wait for someone to cheat just to ban a single user, the disruption is already done. Your 4v4 45min game is already disrupted and everyone has already wasted their time now that you have to kick someone. It's kind of like thinking you can forgo anti-bot measure…

I would much rather my 45 minute game be disrupted and the user booted permanently by moderators VS every game be disrupted for months while the developers try and work out which parts of my privacy they can invade to maybe hopefully boot the cheaters.

What about everyone else?
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