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Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

bryank.im

51–60 of 63 posts

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#51
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could market packaged dog poop, doesn't mean lots of people are going to buy it. There's a fundamental value there for Juggalos, and I personally think it's beyond ICP's music.

You'd be surprised at the market for dog poop. It can be used as organic fertilizer, as a weapon, as a training aid (for training puppies). Seriously, I've purchased a bottle of dog pee on amazon for $7.99 with free shipping via prime. I know this sounds crazy, but I'm dead serious. I used the dog pee to teach my dog where he should go. But I wouldn't have known that was even possible without marketing. Almost anythi…

Haha, I should have known... consider me educated 0_o

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#52
post #32

TL;DR Artists can use the Kickstarter model to collect from their most ardent fans instead of trying to sell units to everyone. I think this makes a lot of sense and can work in some cases, but it remains to be seen what happens when the market is saturated with artists looking to collect voluntarily from their fan base. I suspect people will fatigue from the euphoria of being generous and the model will fade, but I…

Each artist only needs a few patrons, so as long as the tail of patronage is as long as the tail of consumption each consumer only needs to patronize (is that the right word?) a few artists. I've seen this work for small indie bands with small but loyal followings (ex: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/745015920/the-new-giraff...). Basically, it assumes that each band has a few people that like them a lot as opposed to a lot of people that like them a little.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#53

Music without the music industry (labels etc) is the internet without aggregators (reddit etc) What happened on the internet before content aggregators (or before you had access to them)? you'd see a cool website and tell a friend the website address or you'd send a link to a friend and they might pass it on if they cared enough, they might not. That's a few people, unless the website was seriously incredible it woul…

"reddit for music" sounds so much better than the current model, "play the same thing on loop 10 times an hour".

We have that. It's called last.fm.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#54
I've posted this before, but what Francis Ford Coppola said is very relevant to the topic:

http://the99percent.com/articles/6973/Francis-Ford-Coppola-O....

"We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Artists had a patron, either the leader of the state or the duke of Weimar or somewhere, or the church, the pope. Or they had another job. I have another job. I make films. No one tells me what to do. But I make the money in the wine industry. You work another job and get up at five in the morning and write your script. This idea of Metallica or some rock n’ roll singer being rich, that’s not necessarily going to happen anymore. Because, as we enter into a new age, maybe art will be free. Maybe the students are right. They should be able to download music and movies. I’m going to be shot for saying this. But who said art has to cost money? And therefore, who says artists have to make money? In the old days, 200 years ago, if you were a composer, the only way you could make money was to travel with the orchestra and be the conductor, because then you’d be paid as a musician. There was no recording. There were no record royalties. So I would say, “Try to disconnect the idea of cinema with the idea of making a living and money.” Because there are ways around it."

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#55
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I explained my point poorly. If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator , they make/take music that they know the average person will like (yay formulas!) and deliver it to you through radio, television and all the other place…

"If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator" This is already beginning to shatter. last.fm, genius on itunes and many more will just play music that you like based on some input. It works pretty well now, in five years it's going to b…

They all require your input though. A lot of people listen to the radio- something they have absolutely no control over. It's interesting to think what will happen to them.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#56
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The music industry's disappearance won't create a void, things will move in to take their place. You don't need the big labels to be the filter, there are plenty of other individuals and companies who will take that place as the arbiters of "popular" music.

Big labels aren't even filters? They're creators. Without them we'll have no popular music. Where were Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Britney Spears, Ke$ha, Justin Bieber, .fun, Taylor Swift all before a major took them on? Nowhere. Flopsville. They create mass market products. Without them nobody will have the budget or knowledge to do it. And that'll be a sad day.

Joustin Bieber was a youtube sensation before any label hired him. Great operas existed before the record labels... when they are gone musicians and theater and performance directors will continue to produce great art.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#57

TL;DR The arts used to be (like Mozart's time used to be) supported by wealthy patrons who commissioned works that were subsequently enjoyed by the public. The notion of music as a commodity to be consumed like sugar and paprika is a modern one, and, M Kim argues, a historical quirk whose time has passed. We should thus separate consumption from patronage, with the latter greatly enhanced by crowd-funding technology,…

One could still have free music for those who value dollars more than time. If the music can be copied freely, couldn't the cover art and other metadata also be copied? There's no reason in principle that an ad-supported iTunes clone couldn't do everything iTunes does - it could be more convenient, in fact, as you wouldn't have to muck around with credit card numbers and passwords. The only reason piracy is inconveni…

The music distribution system today adds value beyond just getting stuff to my computer - it selects artists, curates content, stores it for me virtually, etc. These functions would all probably find a portion of people willing to pay for them.

I am thinking of Pandoras or Shazams, perhaps with features that let me say "someone make a song like this". One could see the emergence, as a counter-movement, of heavily DRM-protected "limited release" albums.

When you make something people value free strange things happen. The most likely is still the use of force to enforce profits, i.e. some form of copyright regime.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think labels adding value as curators is an outdated argument. Music aggregators are everywhere now. HypeMachine, SoundCloud, even iTunes and Youtube all help me find great music. Even Reddit itself has subreddits that aggregate great music. Sometimes that music is curated by a label, oftentimes not.

I think I explained my point poorly. If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator , they make/take music that they know the average person will like (yay formulas!) and deliver it to you through radio, television and all the other place…

> If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people)

If most people don't care much about music, why should we as a society spend so much money supporting the music industry?

I view the music industry & pop music as an ephemeral buisness which took advantage of the particular technology & society present in the 20th century, in the same way that some species of animal might evolve to take advantage of some ecological niche that appeared as global climate changes and then dies out once that niche dissapears.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#59
post #54

I've posted this before, but what Francis Ford Coppola said is very relevant to the topic: http://the99percent.com/articles/6973/Francis-Ford-Coppola-O... . "We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Artists had a patron, either the leader of the state or the duke of Weimar or somew…

Did Coppola get his other job in wine before or after making tons of money from his films?

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could still have free music for those who value dollars more than time. If the music can be copied freely, couldn't the cover art and other metadata also be copied? There's no reason in principle that an ad-supported iTunes clone couldn't do everything iTunes does - it could be more convenient, in fact, as you wouldn't have to muck around with credit card numbers and passwords. The only reason piracy is inconveni…

The music distribution system today adds value beyond just getting stuff to my computer - it selects artists, curates content, stores it for me virtually, etc. These functions would all probably find a portion of people willing to pay for them. I am thinking of Pandoras or Shazams, perhaps with features that let me say "someone make a song like this". One could see the emergence, as a counter-movement, of heavily DRM…

Don't you think any paid selection-curation-storage effort will have ad-supported competitors?

Google, Youtube etc are all free - it's obviously economically feasible to distribute media online for just ad revenues.

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