Live data from Hacker News

Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

bryank.im

31–40 of 63 posts

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#31

Music without the music industry (labels etc) is the internet without aggregators (reddit etc) What happened on the internet before content aggregators (or before you had access to them)? you'd see a cool website and tell a friend the website address or you'd send a link to a friend and they might pass it on if they cared enough, they might not. That's a few people, unless the website was seriously incredible it woul…

I think labels adding value as curators is an outdated argument.

Music aggregators are everywhere now. HypeMachine, SoundCloud, even iTunes and Youtube all help me find great music. Even Reddit itself has subreddits that aggregate great music. Sometimes that music is curated by a label, oftentimes not.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#32
TL;DR Artists can use the Kickstarter model to collect from their most ardent fans instead of trying to sell units to everyone.

I think this makes a lot of sense and can work in some cases, but it remains to be seen what happens when the market is saturated with artists looking to collect voluntarily from their fan base. I suspect people will fatigue from the euphoria of being generous and the model will fade, but I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#34

Music without the music industry (labels etc) is the internet without aggregators (reddit etc) What happened on the internet before content aggregators (or before you had access to them)? you'd see a cool website and tell a friend the website address or you'd send a link to a friend and they might pass it on if they cared enough, they might not. That's a few people, unless the website was seriously incredible it woul…

I think labels adding value as curators is an outdated argument. Music aggregators are everywhere now. HypeMachine, SoundCloud, even iTunes and Youtube all help me find great music. Even Reddit itself has subreddits that aggregate great music. Sometimes that music is curated by a label, oftentimes not.

I think I explained my point poorly.

If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator, they make/take music that they know the average person will like (yay formulas!) and deliver it to you through radio, television and all the other places people listen to music.

If that disappears and music becomes something you have to actively seek out, or find yourself disliking most of the music you're hearing on the radio ("this week on the top 40 from some website that people that care about music visit...") you're just going to give up.

music is a part of our lives, yes, but not because it's something most people are passionate about, it's because it's just something that is there. I've started to enjoy music a lot recently, but for the majority of my life it wasn't something I cared about at all, I would just listen to whatever was popular and I was happy with that. My mother is the same, she'll hear a song on the radio and like it and then go out and buy the bands album and listen to that, she would never sit hunched over a computer trawling through websites sharing different music, or flick through TV channels, or switch between radio stations.

I used reddit as an example of a website that delivers content of a specific type to people that want it. The example you're using (Soundcloud, Hypemachine) would be sites like Hackernews, they cater to a specific audience. Most people that use reddit are just idle consumers, they go to reddit.com click the top 20 links, laugh at the cute cat pictures and move on. How many ever subscribe to communities they care about? A relatively small amount. That's the amount that would ever seek out music. (edit: I think a good way to explain it in simple terms is: reddit is "my first internet content aggregator", the music industry is "my first music aggregator")

How the system works now isn't PERFECT, but it's pretty great. Popular music is distributed by big labels, they control what the average person hears and "know" what most people like; people that want more than just the popular music can seek it out and/or contribute through kickstarter (which is growing, which is great). I think what the article describes is fantastic and it SHOULD happen, but alongside big labels, not as a replacement.

Music should be paid for, music should generate revenue, artists should be able to use labels to get big, but artists should also be able to stay independent, make music for making music, have their fans fund what they want to hear. That sort of thing is great, but both can exist at the same time (and I think they will)

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think labels adding value as curators is an outdated argument. Music aggregators are everywhere now. HypeMachine, SoundCloud, even iTunes and Youtube all help me find great music. Even Reddit itself has subreddits that aggregate great music. Sometimes that music is curated by a label, oftentimes not.

I think I explained my point poorly. If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator , they make/take music that they know the average person will like (yay formulas!) and deliver it to you through radio, television and all the other place…

The music industry's disappearance won't create a void, things will move in to take their place.

You don't need the big labels to be the filter, there are plenty of other individuals and companies who will take that place as the arbiters of "popular" music.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#37
You make some great points, but I think the "Internet Apologists" school of thought is closer to your "Crowd Patronage" idea than you realise. As you said, recorded music is fairly recent, but gathering around to enjoy a show goes waaaay back...and I think it's a great business model going forward.

One great example of this in action is Hoodie Allen. He releases all his music free on Soundcloud[1] and Youtube[2], where he funds/makes his own (pretty impressive) music videos to gain his audience. No record label required. His music is on iTunes, but I'm guessing the real money is made in concerts.

[1] http://soundcloud.com/hoodieallenmusic

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t431MAUQlQ

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#38

Music without the music industry (labels etc) is the internet without aggregators (reddit etc) What happened on the internet before content aggregators (or before you had access to them)? you'd see a cool website and tell a friend the website address or you'd send a link to a friend and they might pass it on if they cared enough, they might not. That's a few people, unless the website was seriously incredible it woul…

You could market packaged dog poop, doesn't mean lots of people are going to buy it. There's a fundamental value there for Juggalos, and I personally think it's beyond ICP's music.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think labels adding value as curators is an outdated argument. Music aggregators are everywhere now. HypeMachine, SoundCloud, even iTunes and Youtube all help me find great music. Even Reddit itself has subreddits that aggregate great music. Sometimes that music is curated by a label, oftentimes not.

I think I explained my point poorly. If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator , they make/take music that they know the average person will like (yay formulas!) and deliver it to you through radio, television and all the other place…

"If you do not care about music enough to seek it out (which is most people) and music is just something that's in your life when you're driving to work or doing the cleaning you rely on the "music industry" to be your aggregator"

This is already beginning to shatter. last.fm, genius on itunes and many more will just play music that you like based on some input. It works pretty well now, in five years it's going to be great.

Re: Crowd Patronage: How A 400 Year Old Model Can Save The Music Industry

#40
Great article. Have you read Musicking by Christopher Small? If not, you definitely should.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicking-Meanings-Performing-Listen...

Also, it might be interesting to chat a bit more. Drop me an email - rob at [see profile for domain].

Post reply on HN