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Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

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Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#81

Post by emidln »

mindslight wrote: post #77
emidln wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this data is made "anonymous" and sold to insurance companies and misc data brokers. If it's linked to my insurance company, I don't want to jack my rates. Further, I've thus far avoided a CFAA conviction and I'd like to keep it that way.

It would be an extremely totalitarian dynamic to be persecuted with the CFAA for modifying a device you own based on part of it having been (nonconsensually!) programmed by a third party to upload data to their own server. You own the device, so anything you do within that device is authorized. And the code that uploads the data is authorized to do so because it was put there by the same company that owns [controls]…

If you can be prosecuted for guessing urls you can be prosecuted for sending garbage data in a way you know will be uploaded to a remote system.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#83

Post by closewith »

deno wrote: post #63
closewith wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU, eCall is mandatory and disabling it fails most roadworthiness checks and voids most insurance policies, so it doesn't help much. Also, while the EU does (for now) have stronger privacy protections for citizens against corporate interests, the opposite is true in most EU countries for Government surveillance.

eCall has very strong privacy protections, see Article 6: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/758/oj

While eCall has some weak privacy protections (it's open to all the standard cellular network surveillance lawful in each country), it also means you cannot disable the vehicle's modem in most (maybe all) EU countries with failing roadworthiness checks and insurance policies.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#84

Post by mindslight »

emidln wrote: post #81
mindslight wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be an extremely totalitarian dynamic to be persecuted with the CFAA for modifying a device you own based on part of it having been (nonconsensually!) programmed by a third party to upload data to their own server. You own the device, so anything you do within that device is authorized. And the code that uploads the data is authorized to do so because it was put there by the same company that owns [controls]…

If you can be prosecuted for guessing urls you can be prosecuted for sending garbage data in a way you know will be uploaded to a remote system.

As a strictly logical assertion, I do not agree. Guessing URLs is crafting new types of interactions with a server. The built in surveillance uploader is still only accessing the server in the way it has already been explicitly authorized. Trying to tie some nebulous TOS to a situation that the manufacturer has deliberately created reeks of the same type of website-TOS shenanigans courts have (actually!) struck down.

As a pragmatic matter, I do completely understand where you're coming from (my second paragraph). In a sense, if one can get to the point of being convicted they have been kind of fortunate - it means they didn't kill themselves under the crushing pressure of a team of federal persecutors whose day job is making your life miserable.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#85

Post by the_sleaze_ »

luqtas wrote: post #79
potato3732842 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>as a cyclist and public transport user with no driver license, i hope personal vehicles have so much sensors that they can detect if you are drunk or stressed and limit your reaches. fuck your metallic beetle What a great illustration of the sort of selfish opinions that people like to peddle under the guise of perceived common good. Are you willing to have your bike brakes linked up with GPS and red light signals?…

in a city that doesn't produce even 1/25 of microplastic thousand kilos vehicles produce? because that also has an impact on marine ecosystems, by the way, cars are linked as one of the highest if not the, pollutants of microplastic. in a city that doesn't have air pollution linked towards a bunch of disease? in a city that doesn't have noise pollution that also has a bazinga of negative impact? are you really naive…

I don't totally disagree.

The USA was designed by Ford motor company, for cars, by cars. That was a mistake.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#87

Post by 1shooner »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #70

nothing. And banning ALPR wont fix anything either. All cars have 4 unique serial numbers broadcast via radio at all times via the TPMS system. you don't even need a camera, just a radio receiver.

> banning ALPR wont fix anything either.

Ideally the implementation would be immaterial to a ban. The ban (or more likely first, warrant requirement similar to cell data) would be on the tracking database, not the details of how the tracking was accomplished.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#88

Post by everdrive »

galleywest200 wrote: post #28
chasing0entropy wrote: post #17

Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience. Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons. Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across…

> Ignore your car's complaints and error messages. Did you know Orange dash error lights are non critical? "Tire pressure low" is one you should probably check out on a regular basis.

But in exchange for being tracked we've been saved from the scourge of occasionally checking our tire pressure. Why, I'd give up almost anything just to be slightly more comfortable.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#89

Post by everdrive »

gruez wrote: post #65
CamperBob2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not connected to the internet, there is no issue. It's connected to the Internet. Every car has a SIM card now.

>It's connected to the Internet. Every car has a SIM card now. Maybe every new car, but the average car is 13 years old, and the OP made no clarification on whether his advice was for only new cars, or for a 2015 econobox as well.

Most people don't know, and will never know whether their car is connected to the internet, so it's better to assume it is unless you have specific information. The app or phone you connect to the car could also be a major exfil point of this data.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#90

Post by malwrar »

daft_pink wrote: post #82

The problem is that with Flock, you’re basically being tracked incessantly anyways, so who cares if the automaker also does it?

We need to resist this stuff or else there will be Flock, stalker cars, and some other new nightmare they excuse by saying “well we’re already watching…”. Can’t let ourselves accept this is normal!
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