Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it • Hacker News Board

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#71

Post by encom » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

chasing0entropy wrote: post #14

more_corn wrote: post #6

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Yes - remove the telematics radio and GPS antennas. They are usually in the overhead console area around/behind the lighting and mirror controls. In BMWs, the gps antenna is behind the upper lights, the telematics and V2V antenna is in the sharkfin(unplug it from underneath the headliner)

But what's the point if you're just going to use Android Auto or Apple's car-thing instead? You're just letting some other company invade your privacy.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#72

Post by calvinmorrison » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:43 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #21

pixelpoet wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a driver's licence, lived in a zillion countries; don't think I could do that in America though.

Over half of New York City households are car-free. That jumps to 3/4 in Manhattan. Millions of American households don’t have a car, but you rarely hear about it as a viable option.

"the best public transit in the densest US city barely manages to reach 50% of car-free lifestyle" is what you're leaving out.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#73

Post by potato3732842 » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:45 PM UTC

luqtas wrote: post #67

potato3732842 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Safety" is a magic word like "god" was a thousand years ago. If you say it just right you can manufacture an excuse to do all sorts of stuff that'll clearly lead to bad stuff if left to run. They undoubtably said things like "if it saves even one person from falling asleep at the wheel it's worth it" or something along those lines.

this is still a technology advancement... what if smartphone usage or asleep safely stops the car? what if this run locally? or what if it's linked to public entities that will add penalty points to your license? as a cyclist and public transport user with no driver license, i hope personal vehicles have so much sensors that they can detect if you are drunk or stressed and limit your reaches. fuck your metallic beetl…

>as a cyclist and public transport user with no driver license, i hope personal vehicles have so much sensors that they can detect if you are drunk or stressed and limit your reaches. fuck your metallic beetle

What a great illustration of the sort of selfish opinions that people like to peddle under the guise of perceived common good.

Are you willing to have your bike brakes linked up with GPS and red light signals? It's in the name of safety and progress after all.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#74

Post by anonymars » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

sejje wrote: post #12

anonymars wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, that should be a catch-22, right? How would they know you're no longer in Massachusetts, without the spying enabled while within Massachusetts?

Because "spying" in this case means "sending data to the mothership." It doesn't mean "the car's gps is disabled"

Perhaps. But what if a person living in Massachusetts travels to another state?

I found this when looking into it more: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/06/feds-tell-automakers-no...

"Now, according to Reuters, NHTSA has written to automakers to advise them not to comply with the Massachusetts law. Among its problems are the fact that someone “could utilize such open access to remotely command vehicles to operate dangerously, including attacking multiple vehicles concurrently,” and that “open access to vehicle manufacturers’ telematics offerings with the ability to remotely send commands allows for manipulation of systems on a vehicle, including safety-critical functions such as steering, acceleration, or braking.”

Faced with this dilemma, it’s quite possible the automakers will respond by simply disabling telematics and connected services for customers in the state. Subaru already took that step when it introduced its model year 2022 vehicles, and NHTSA says other OEMs may do the same."

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#75

Post by jmward01 » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

I won't mince words. This is criminal and should be dealt with that way. It is obvious I don't want my information collected and sold. I make it clear every reasonable chance I get. This goes beyond abuse of my privacy, this is digital assault and the company officers that allowed these 'features' should be thrown in jail for it.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#76

Post by metalman » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

so ya!

My house is fairly close((125') to a rural "highway", and only internet here is mobile data that my phone shares with other devices and mornings(anytime) my older desktop with 2.5 ghz wifi gets bumped off with the passing of every car that has glaring supper white headlights,but, not the ones running yellow incandecents, whatever rf signal is comming of these things must be barely, or completly illegal, and could obviously be tracked in any number of ways, so not so much bieng spied on, as just flat out trasmitting everything you do in ridiculously fine grained detail.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#77

Post by mindslight » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:19 PM UTC

emidln wrote: post #59

M95D wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CAN traffic is unencrypted. It was pretty easy to MITM this module with a cheap arm Linux board And you didn't poison their databases and statistics with fake data?? OMG, I'm thinking of buying one of these cars just for this opportunity! (No, I'm not.)

I suspect this data is made "anonymous" and sold to insurance companies and misc data brokers. If it's linked to my insurance company, I don't want to jack my rates. Further, I've thus far avoided a CFAA conviction and I'd like to keep it that way.

It would be an extremely totalitarian dynamic to be persecuted with the CFAA for modifying a device you own based on part of it having been (nonconsensually!) programmed by a third party to upload data to their own server. You own the device, so anything you do within that device is authorized. And the code that uploads the data is authorized to do so because it was put there by the same company that owns [controls] the servers themselves.

I do know that the CFAA essentially gets interpreted to mean whatever the corpos want it to mean - it's basically an anti-witch law - so it's best to steer clear. And this goes double with with the current overtly pay-to-play regime. But just saying.

(Awesome description btw! I really wish I'd find a buying guide for many makes/models of cars that detail how well they can be unshackled from digital authoritarianism. A Miata is not the type of vehicle I am in the market for (which is unfortunate, for several reasons))

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#78

Post by mindslight » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:31 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #64

pixl97 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if you consider that death rate per mile driven 'mostly fine'

Check your tire pressures when you get gas, along with your oil and other fluid levels. Eyeball the tires every time you get in the car. These habits are not hard to develop and they will work even when the sensors malfunction (which is not infrequently). All that these sensor-based systems do is train you to be an inattentive car owner.

Throughout my entire life, I don't know if I have ever seen anyone measuring their tire pressure or checking their oil at a gas station. Visually assessing tires can be quite misleading as well - my TPMS indicator was just on, visually it looked like one tire (its pressure was fine), and the tire that was 10psi low looked normal.

Falling back to an attitude of not needing automation and instrumentation is a cope, and often a poor cope at that. The problem isn't the dash warning lights of the past several decades, it's the built in corporate surveillance hardware of the past single decade (and the corresponding violation of user trust in favor of corporate control).

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#79

Post by luqtas » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:37 PM UTC

potato3732842 wrote: post #73

luqtas wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is still a technology advancement... what if smartphone usage or asleep safely stops the car? what if this run locally? or what if it's linked to public entities that will add penalty points to your license? as a cyclist and public transport user with no driver license, i hope personal vehicles have so much sensors that they can detect if you are drunk or stressed and limit your reaches. fuck your metallic beetl…

>as a cyclist and public transport user with no driver license, i hope personal vehicles have so much sensors that they can detect if you are drunk or stressed and limit your reaches. fuck your metallic beetle What a great illustration of the sort of selfish opinions that people like to peddle under the guise of perceived common good. Are you willing to have your bike brakes linked up with GPS and red light signals?…

in a city that doesn't produce even 1/25 of microplastic thousand kilos vehicles produce? because that also has an impact on marine ecosystems, by the way, cars are linked as one of the highest if not the, pollutants of microplastic. in a city that doesn't have air pollution linked towards a bunch of disease? in a city that doesn't have noise pollution that also has a bazinga of negative impact?

are you really naive to believe cyclists wouldn't respect traffic lights on a city designed after walk and public transportation? or are you thinking on the minimal cyclists that get killed by tresspasing this rule by vehicles that get a mild scratch? or the light or mild injuries bicycles at 15-25 km/h are gonna cause between each other?

edit: i would even go further and hope personal vehicles production is ceased and their circulation becomes a crime for citizens on non-legal or non essential services duties. i would live perfectly fine in a city without those but who controls the speed of my bicycle on cycle paths or that lock my brakes if i try to cycle high

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#80

Post by nja » Sun, Nov 30, 2025, 6:37 PM UTC

emidln wrote: post #20

My 2025 Mazda Miata has a CAN connected Telematics Control Unit that sends a bunch of data to Mazda on ignition off. Among this data is acceleration and velocity data along with coordinates sampled for where you were. It is also used as a gateway for the Mazda app to start your car, query your vehicle's tire pressure, etc. It is claimed that you can opt out of this by calling Mazda and being persistent. The CAN traff…

Have you posted any writeups or other information about how you built this? I'm eyeing a Mazda as a next car (I've never owned a car newer than a 2014, and outside of that one, any newer than 2006, but family safety needs may lead to getting a newer car soon), and telemetry seems like one of the few downsides to an otherwise good carmaker. Would be very interested to learn more!