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Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

reuters.com

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Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#41

Post by darth_avocado »

mtrovo wrote: post #6
juujian wrote: post #2

Not just Tesla, all established brands we know are left behind. I never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to 'were inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'. Largest brands n terms of units, completely left behind in an emerging segment that's already dominating it's largest market (China). So many executives in the industry just didn't see the writing on the wall. I don't what GM was thinking…

This is what makes the innovator's dilemma repeat itself so many times in so many industries. It's not that the incumbent companies don't see the new technology; it's that they're so entrenched in what they know how to do that pivoting to the new technology is basically a Hail Mary no matter how you do it. Do it too early and your shareholders are going to think you're crazy. Do it too late, and you're risking enteri…

I think it’s less “pivoting is hard” and more “we know what’s right and we’re not going to pivot”.

It’s not hard to have smaller R&D teams work on these problems to keep the innovation going, but most executives are out there prioritizing cost cuttings so that the shareholders get the quarterly dopamine boosts on the earnings calls.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#42

Post by rootusrootus »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #28
Gualdrapo wrote: post #10

It was announced a few days ago some models of Tesla are coming to Colombia at cheaper prices than BYD and the like and people here seems to be crazy about Tesla now. Time will tell how reliable they are on our poor roads. And that's one thing about EVs here in general - they are coming with no spare tire but a flat tire repair kit, which it's fine for small issues but may not be enough for the problems said tough ro…

> And that's one thing about EVs here in general - they are coming with no spare tire but a flat tire repair kit That seems to be the standard for all new cars, both ICE and EV; sometimes a spare is available as a paid option. Which seems insane. But it is what it is.

Yep. My Lightning is the first vehicle I've had with a spare in a number of years. Even donut spares are getting much less common, not just on EVs.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#43

Post by [deleted] »

mtrovo wrote: post #6
juujian wrote: post #2

Not just Tesla, all established brands we know are left behind. I never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to 'were inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'. Largest brands n terms of units, completely left behind in an emerging segment that's already dominating it's largest market (China). So many executives in the industry just didn't see the writing on the wall. I don't what GM was thinking…

This is what makes the innovator's dilemma repeat itself so many times in so many industries. It's not that the incumbent companies don't see the new technology; it's that they're so entrenched in what they know how to do that pivoting to the new technology is basically a Hail Mary no matter how you do it. Do it too early and your shareholders are going to think you're crazy. Do it too late, and you're risking enteri…

[deleted]

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#44

Post by tcdent »

> Chinese brands

There is far more to the logistics and adoption of this outside of "Tesla failed to capture the region" as the article's title eludes to.

Bribery, government corruption, risky loans, undercutting. It is well documented in the case of large infrastructure projects and the same playbook will be revealed in time.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#45

Post by reisse »

juujian wrote: post #2

Not just Tesla, all established brands we know are left behind. I never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to 'were inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'. Largest brands n terms of units, completely left behind in an emerging segment that's already dominating it's largest market (China). So many executives in the industry just didn't see the writing on the wall. I don't what GM was thinking…

I thought Toyota is doing quite well in emerging markets? However they skipped a lot of EV craziness and just do cheap-and-reliable ICE cars.

I also never understood why established brands lobbied for EVs, and not against them. They clearly had no edge over Tesla and Chinese brands, why compete on rival's field?

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#46

Post by bryanlarsen »

rootusrootus wrote: post #38
iamgopal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small part in me understands that, they are banking on three things 1) oil will be cheap because of EV boom and hence EV dominance will be slow and could take couple of decades 2) electric Energy cost will rise significantly because so much charging and energy infrastructure required. 3) Battery will reach at par with gasoline and matured standardised comodity, that will be the perfect time to enter.

I think #1 will probably play out to a certain extent. Perhaps as an oscillation between low and high as each wave knocks more gas stations out of business and refinery capacity offline. But I have to say, even low prices on gas won't make me go back -- I prefer my EVs in all regards to the ICE equivalents, with the sole exception of marathon (>450 miles per day) road trips, which is not my use case. I hope #2 won't…

> with the sole exception of marathon (>450 miles per day) road trips

I've done 4 3000km road trips and intentionally took the EV leaving the ICE vehicle at home. It's a better car, and we need to stop to bathroom anyways, so charging isn't inconvenient. Saving a few hundred dollars in fuel is nice, too.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#47

Post by rootusrootus »

sofixa wrote: post #29
noosphr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we've seen the end game yet. I have an electric cargo bike. During a kids party yesterday I ran 5 different errands with it while someone with a car managed to get stuck in traffic, not find a parking spot, and miss the whole thing. The only reason why cars are the size and shape they are is because ICE engines couldn't be made smaller. Electric engines on the other hand are small enough that I can have…

> The only reason why cars are the size and shape they are is because ICE engines couldn't be made smaller. Electric engines on the other hand are small enough that I can have the chassis of a fully functioning car be light enough to lift by one man. Nope, the Smart existed for quite a while. Safety standards made cars slightly bigger (e.g. the new Renault Twingo is bigger than the original), but modern American "car…

> that's what marketing has convinced Americans it's what they need

Is there some kind of objective analysis which supports this claim? It seems more likely that people vote with their wallet, and bigger wins out a lot of the time. It's hardly an American manufacturer thing, either, Japanese cars have reliably gotten bigger year after year as well.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#48

Post by Marsymars »

rootusrootus wrote: post #40
Animats wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although Ford's CEO now gets it, Ford's product line doesn't reflect it yet. Farley has been bringing a few sample BYD cars to the US, for Ford people to drive around and to take apart. Farley dragged his executive team to China to see a BYD plant. They came back scared. But what Ford actually sells is 1) an F-150 converted to electric, 2) a Ford Mustang converted to electric, and 3) a Ford Transit converted to elect…

I've got a Lightning and I think I like the 'converted to electric' aspect. Everything that fits on a regular ICE F-150 fits on my truck. The interior is the same (okay, some trims have a big screen, but not all do). It would be nice if it had a bit more range, but when I look at the efficiency of an R1T or a CT, I don't see that being purpose-built would automatically be a win for Ford. Pickups are not ever going to…

The problem with the Lightning is mostly that it's a money-loser for Ford.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#49

Post by Marsymars »

darth_avocado wrote: post #37
Animats wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although Ford's CEO now gets it, Ford's product line doesn't reflect it yet. Farley has been bringing a few sample BYD cars to the US, for Ford people to drive around and to take apart. Farley dragged his executive team to China to see a BYD plant. They came back scared. But what Ford actually sells is 1) an F-150 converted to electric, 2) a Ford Mustang converted to electric, and 3) a Ford Transit converted to elect…

Ford is a bad example because they’ve pretty much abandoned all their non truck and transit van segments for years. Even if EVs weren’t a thing, they do not compete in any of the segments and haven’t for almost a decade. First it was Japanese and German companies eating their lunch, now it’s the Chinese. Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a recent video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it pr…

> Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a recent video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it pretty much drained the battery in less than 100 miles.

Was that due to something specific with the Lightning, or was it just due to the intrinsic energy requirements of hauling loads? (Or in other words, does an EV even exist that's notably better at hauling loads?)

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#50

Post by rootusrootus »

Marsymars wrote: post #48
rootusrootus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a Lightning and I think I like the 'converted to electric' aspect. Everything that fits on a regular ICE F-150 fits on my truck. The interior is the same (okay, some trims have a big screen, but not all do). It would be nice if it had a bit more range, but when I look at the efficiency of an R1T or a CT, I don't see that being purpose-built would automatically be a win for Ford. Pickups are not ever going to…

The problem with the Lightning is mostly that it's a money-loser for Ford.

I've never seen a good number on this. Is it money losing per vehicle, or because of the amortized R&D included in the cost? The problem from my perspective is that it hasn't turned out as popular as they hoped -- truck buyers are a hard to convert bunch of people. Which is too bad, because my Lightning is my favorite of all the pickups I've owned over the years. It's a fantastic truck.
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