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FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

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Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#81
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, going to https://filezilla-project.org/prodownload.php?beta=0 and entering your email address and order number doesn't work?

No, it says expired.

So then you didn't buy a lifetime subscription? Why would you get access to the software for lifetime, if you ordered only a 1, 3 or 5 year license?

Your right to receive updates is limited to the time that you selected when you ordered FileZilla Pro.

If you have, infact, ordered a "Perpetual License", then you would have agreed to the Terms and Conditions when ordering FileZilla (here's a random old copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20211128083132/https://store.fil...)

It clearly says in the T&C that you agreed to:

  > All risk of loss for the Products shall pass to You upon delivery of the Products to the location specified in Your Order (even if no signature is required for delivery). For the avoidance of doubt, the delivery of downloaded Products occurs when the Products are downloaded.
What you are saying is that you ordered FileZilla (agreeing to the T&C as part of payment). The T&C said once you downloaded the product, you were required to keep the software yourself.

FileZilla's Terms and Conditions are a mess. https://filezillapro.com/terms-and-conditions/

It does say:

> In a one-off purchase you will have a right to receive services or other rights for the maximum period of time indicated in the package you have purchased or ‒ missing that indication ‒ for up to five years.

It also says:

> Unless registered, your copy will not receive updates and will not exploit the services of the Software.

So, I would assume that if you purchased the Lifetime license, and you registered the software within the 4 required weeks, then they are infact breaking their contract with you.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can understand what? You're listing workarounds, not justifications. Since it would cost them roughly nothing to keep old installers around forever for paid users, it's really hard to imagine a justification.

Just like it would cost you roughly nothing to keep exactly the same copy in your own backups. So why didn't you if it was so effortless and free?

My job isn't based around copies of this software, so hypothetical me forgot.

Forgetting is a pretty good excuse I think.

The company didn't forget anything. They're refusing the download on purpose, presumably because they don't want the user to walk away happy without paying more.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#83
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lifetime licenses are basically a scam these days. Don't trust any of them.

And instead trust that subscription prices will stay constant and that the company will always stay in business and support the product you purchase? The root issue is trust, not a lifetime license. In fact, a lifetime license is a good predictor of trust because users prefer it to subscriptions and it indicates that the company at least pretends to be interested in the customer's wants. Trust can always be abused, a…

I agree with you completely. For me, this is a matter of trust and principle, not the cost of the software. I see this as a questionable practice aimed at pushing long-time supporters to spend more money. After this experience, I would never consider purchasing anything from them again.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#84

While I understand the author's frustration, I think they should take a moment and look in the mirror. A perpetual license doesn't mean that Filezilla should be a free hosting provider for installation media for eternity. Their reasons really aren't that relevant here. Likewise the rant about Mozilla is completely unfounded. There are many things to be upset at in the modern software world, this is not one of them.

Think about how little it costs to be a free hosting provider for a handful of 15MB downloads, maybe one per major version, and just for people that paid you in the past. It's next to nothing. In particular, cloudflare will give you 10GB of free object storage with unlimited bandwidth and 10 million downloads a month. So yes, they should host the installer forever.

To put it another way, the cost to provide downloads forever instead of just once is less than a penny. It should be built in to the purchase.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#85
post #42

While I understand the author's frustration, I think they should take a moment and look in the mirror. A perpetual license doesn't mean that Filezilla should be a free hosting provider for installation media for eternity. Their reasons really aren't that relevant here. Likewise the rant about Mozilla is completely unfounded. There are many things to be upset at in the modern software world, this is not one of them.

> A perpetual license doesn't mean that Filezilla should be a free hosting provider for installation media for eternity. Thank you. This is like people who think $5 is too much for an app. We've become entitled to think software is free because giants pour lots of ad-riddled software in our laps. You bought the car. You can use the car forever. If you lose it, that's on you.

> This is like people who think $5 is too much for an app. We've become entitled to think software is free because giants pour lots of ad-riddled software in our laps.

Your complaint is misplaced. Software takes work, and updates take work. Hosting It basically is zero cost to keep those files available somewhere.

> You bought the car. You can use the car forever. If you lose it, that's on you.

If the manufacturer had a button that could summon the car I lost, and refused to press it, that would reflect extremely badly on them.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#86
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A perpetual license doesn't mean that Filezilla should be a free hosting provider for installation media for eternity. Thank you. This is like people who think $5 is too much for an app. We've become entitled to think software is free because giants pour lots of ad-riddled software in our laps. You bought the car. You can use the car forever. If you lose it, that's on you.

> This is like people who think $5 is too much for an app. We've become entitled to think software is free because giants pour lots of ad-riddled software in our laps. Your complaint is misplaced. Software takes work, and updates take work. Hosting It basically is zero cost to keep those files available somewhere. > You bought the car. You can use the car forever. If you lose it, that's on you. If the manufacturer ha…

> Hosting > It basically is zero cost to keep those files available somewhere.

You don't know that.

Maybe it was put in a bucket or host that died when the company switched to a subscription model. Maybe they don't have copies on hand. Maybe it was a previous team that owned it. Maybe a different owner.

You're assuming a possibility space of zero chance of work on their behalf. There are lots of things that could have happened.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#87

Now go complain to Adobe, where they just shut down their activation servers and leave you with 1k$ of "perpetual" unactivable & unusable software, no matter how much care you took keeping the installer media.

I remember downloading the offline installers for CS2 they released after turning off its activation servers. I take it that wasn't repeated for the later versions

https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/adobe-releases-creative-...

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it says expired.

So then you didn't buy a lifetime subscription? Why would you get access to the software for lifetime, if you ordered only a 1, 3 or 5 year license? Your right to receive updates is limited to the time that you selected when you ordered FileZilla Pro. If you have, infact, ordered a "Perpetual License", then you would have agreed to the Terms and Conditions when ordering FileZilla (here's a random old copy: https://we…

> The T&C said once you downloaded the product, you were required to keep the software yourself.

Which is a bad thing, and it's good to warn people about that clause loudly.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#89
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because what you paid for is the software on physical media. Why would any publisher just hand out things for free that they otherwise charge for because you claim you lost the item. Back in the days of physical software, it used to be common to buy and sell used software. The difference between "I lost it, send me a new one" and "I sold it, send me a new one" is a simple lie, that more people than you think would be…

>Yes, but there is no moral argument for requiring it. Are you sure you didn't butcher a word here? Yes, Firezilla might be in the clear legally if they told the OP to pound sand, but that's not the same thing as having no "moral argument". In most common law jurisdictions, it's perfectly legal to walk past a drowning child and refuse to save him, even if you'll incur marginal cost (eg. 10 min of your time). However…

Comparing a company that refuses to support a purchase with an expired support term to refusing to save the life of a child? I would argue that refusing to stop the death of a child is not in any way comparable to refusing to go above and beyond on a $13 sale from years ago.

> Similar logic applies here, which is that it costs next to nothing for them to provide downloads to existing owners, because they presumably have the digital distribution infrastructure for new sales.

In any case, hosting archival versions is not free, it incurs a cost, just like printing, mailing, and postage does for a hard copy of a book. The cost is possibly less, but not 0.

If you think there is a threshold for when a company should cover the costs of negligent loss versus not covering those costs, what is it? Why is the cost of shipping a replacement cost of a physical media above that cost, and the cost of hosting a server in perpetuity below that cost?

New sales are for different versions than what he purchased. Filezilla sells a perpetual license with updates for a year. They just keep the most up to date version on the download server and cut off your access after a year.

In order to implement what you are suggesting they would have to build an entire application that knows when your support ended and serve the specific build that you are licensed for, or provide that ability to their CS team. The reality is that the cost of developing and maintaining that minimal functionality are far from free, probably not too dissimilar from the cost of replacing physical copies of books at a unit level, tbh.

While, yes, it would be generous for Filezilla to provide perpetual support and downloads, that is not what was offered or purchased. They provided software, they supported it for a year, they even allow him to use their customer support resources outside of that time.

Under what moral system is there an imperative to do something that is beyond what you originally agreed to in an anonymous purchase?

At the end of the day, all this spilled ink is about a ~$13 license. Sorry, but a years old $13 purchase carries precisely no implied moral imperative for perpetual availability.

Re: FileZilla Pro "Perpetual License" – A Warning to All Users

#90

While I understand the author's frustration, I think they should take a moment and look in the mirror. A perpetual license doesn't mean that Filezilla should be a free hosting provider for installation media for eternity. Their reasons really aren't that relevant here. Likewise the rant about Mozilla is completely unfounded. There are many things to be upset at in the modern software world, this is not one of them.

FileZilla explicitly and emphatically sells a license, not a download. In fact, technically not even the initial download is included in the purchase. They’re technically within their rights to never even give you the software, just say “all we ever sold you was a promise not to sue”, but we’d all agree that’s a scam, right? So, where’s the line?

Point of comparison, Steam, CodeCanyon, and Gumroad all let you re-download the version you licensed indefinitely.

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