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Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

ziglang.org

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Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#841

Post by stocksinsmocks »

sidjxnbx wrote: post #782
stocksinsmocks wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not defending him, but we were already doing this with electron apps, frameworks, libraries, and scripting languages. The only meaningful cost in most software development is labor and that’s what makes sense to optimize. I’d rather have good software, but I’ll take badly made software for free over great software that costs more than the value of the problem solved. These discussions are always about tactics and nev…

I get it, but I think there’s something deeply anti human about being ok with this (not just in software). It’s similar in sentiment to how you behave when nobody is looking - a culture and society is so much better off if people take pride in their work. Obviously there’s nuance (I’ll take slop food for starving people over a healthy meal for a limited few if we’re forced to choose), but the perverse incentives in s…

I’m pretty sure the USSR, Cuba, and the like never succeeded doing this sort of thing, but maybe if we hit ourselves in the head with the same hammer (and sickle) just one more time it will work?

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#842

Post by cindyllm »

stocksinsmocks wrote: post #841
sidjxnbx wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it, but I think there’s something deeply anti human about being ok with this (not just in software). It’s similar in sentiment to how you behave when nobody is looking - a culture and society is so much better off if people take pride in their work. Obviously there’s nuance (I’ll take slop food for starving people over a healthy meal for a limited few if we’re forced to choose), but the perverse incentives in s…

I’m pretty sure the USSR, Cuba, and the like never succeeded doing this sort of thing, but maybe if we hit ourselves in the head with the same hammer (and sickle) just one more time it will work?

[dead]

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#843

Post by tbrockman »

mmaunder wrote: post #208

They've abandoned GitHub for Codeberg because GitHub has ICE as a customer. Codeberg uses Paypal which is a member of the ICE "Virtual Global Taskforce". https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/top-story-industry-partner... There is a purity spiral that organizations can enter when they start doing this, which ends up with you shoving yourself into a cold dark corner of the internet and still not being completely detached…

There's nothing that compels you to "purity spiral" other than attempting to appease cynics who insist that all decisions must be completely binary and consistent, with no room for nuance or practicality, and that anything else is virtue signaling (which is somehow less defensible than enabling harm in the first place).

Reducing harm where feasible is still meaningful, and certainly better than no attempt at all.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#844

Post by johnsea »

antirez wrote: post #494

Wow. I think that's a serious mistake. Maybe GitHub is no longer so great and snappy but nowhere to justify moving something that needs: 1. Money, 2. Exposition, to something obscure just because it's a bit better. It's Git with an UI anyway, there isn't such large difference. I don't care about the fact the post is harsh: it's the content that it is broken from my POV because. It is absolutely legit to do something…

I was happy from the sideline seeing the recent big Zig donations. But this sudden decision is a shock. Technical issues can be worked around (I wish/think), but leaving such a dominant platform? I don't know. For my small small needs Forgejo works great, but for Zig, a project which I hope has a lot of mainstream success, I'm not convinced, that Forgejo/Codeberg is the best fit (atm). Even Graphene OS which has very high standards is (still) on Github, maybe Zig could brood (brüten) a bit longer to decide if it is really time to leave?

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#845

Post by pl4nty »

kristoff_it wrote: post #503
antirez wrote: post #494

Wow. I think that's a serious mistake. Maybe GitHub is no longer so great and snappy but nowhere to justify moving something that needs: 1. Money, 2. Exposition, to something obscure just because it's a bit better. It's Git with an UI anyway, there isn't such large difference. I don't care about the fact the post is harsh: it's the content that it is broken from my POV because. It is absolutely legit to do something…

GitHub Actions are seriously broken and that alone is a technically sound enough reason to move: the sleep.sh bullshit has degraded the performance of our CI for a long time, as it regularly livelocks in an endless while(true) spin runner agents, who stop processing new jobs. The agent itself has poor platform support also because it has a runtime dependency on .NET, and lately GH Actions started running jobs out of…

I had to scroll too far for someone to mention third-party CI. GitHub Actions free runners have always sucked, but the third-party runner ecosystem is really strong for those who can afford it. imo the APIs are far better than the rest of the product - I suspect enterprise customers are strong-arming GitHub to keep them reliable. and there's always third-party CI like tekton if Actions' yaml is too annoying

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#846

Post by typpilol »

joelreymont wrote: post #788
sundarurfriend wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good faith includes the ability to respect and listen to the other person (or in this case, multiple other people who have been working on these projects for years). The attitude he demonstrates has been and remains (this is a quote from him elsewhere on this thread): > existing open source projects are not ready for this and likely won't ever be. i.e. he is enlightened and these projects are just not seeing The Way™…

[flagged]

When a ocaml maintainer took the time to give you real feedback, all you responded with was:

"Thanks X Person"

You're the direct cause to open source burn out.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#847

Post by veverkap »

gexla wrote: post #839
pyrale wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a purity spiral that organizations can enter when they start doing this You are the one summoning that spiral by making a cheap gotcha wrt codeberg using Paypal. The project apparently could and did move because the swith from github to codeberg wasn't that big of an impact, and because, while the new forge is not perfect, they feel the association is less severe. There is no "purity spiral" in that, just…

Right, that seemed like a minor issue. There was also the minor issue of the increase of AI code PRs. Seems like the greater issue was a perception of deterioration of the platform (in their sites for years) and a reasonable path towards migration to another platform.

I think the MSFT ownership was pushing it along as well.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#848

Post by veverkap »

MarkMarine wrote: post #79
munchler wrote: post #19

Calling the people who work on GitHub “losers” is not cool.

I’m sure this isn’t directed at everyone that works at GH, but it would have been more tactful to fault the people making decisions. Those frustrations are real though.

It is actually.

"I also strongly believe that you should not be proud of working for Microsoft, and particularly on GitHub for the last 5 years. I truly am sorry but you need to be called out."

https://hachyderm.io/@andrewrk@mastodon.social/1156234452984...

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#849

Post by lkey »

simianwords wrote: post #786
lkey wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simian, You are making an ethical judgment when you say, in essence, that 'it is wrong for businesses (and non-profits) to attempt to act in an ethical manner, aligned with their mission statement'. Making an ethical argument about the purposelessness and futility of ethics is... interesting to say the least. Please, consider stopping the internet today and instead spend time with a book on ethics that you think agre…

I didn't say it is wrong but I sure as hell wouldn't swap my business out of AWS to signal my virtues

Do you see a difference between 'signaling virtue' and 'having virtue and living in accordance with those virtues'?

People that use the former like a slur seem to need to believe that the latter cannot be true.

I wouldn't want to live in a world like that personally, assuming nefarious intention behind every good act (people in positions of highest power excepted). It seems exhausting.

Andrew Kelley means what he says and says what he means (in an on-the-spectrum way). It makes him off-putting and charming in equal measure, depending on the issue. But you shouldn't assume that this is a mere 'signal', it is what he believes.

Speaking for myself, I do disassociate myself from unethical products and people. It's not always as soon as I'd like, Amazon being a good example. I've never regretted doing so.

It's not even worth bragging about, who would even care? I just despise lying, and if I want to believe that I behave ethically without lying to myself, this is the natural consequence.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#850

Post by veverkap »

echelon wrote: post #836
skrebbel wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ziglang is a small organization supported by donations, Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world. If anything, they're punching up. Calling people losers isn't classy, but if I were a well-paid Microsoft employee I'd laugh all the way to the bank that some community funded purist called me that. If it's supposed to be bullying he isn't very good at it.

They're not punching Microsoft. They're punching employees on a team. People with less freedom and autonomy than the Ziglang ICs. On the scale of FAANG comp, Microsoft is at the lower end of the scale. I've had several jobs making more in TC than Microsofties.

According to Zig's financials https://ziglang.org/news/2025-financials/, Andrew himself makes more money than a few staff engineers I know there.
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