Racism at a gaming company • Hacker News Board

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#291

Post by tptacek » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:06 PM UTC

swang wrote: post #266

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

> * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" I think you read that wrong. The black coworker (Mike) said that in reference to Steve not the other way around. Given that, do you think the black coworker should be fired for saying that about Steve? Is it okay for the Mike to say that about Steve but not the other way around, rega…

No, because Steve is surely not one of a tiny minority of white people in the office, nor is there a clear cultural connotation/prejudice of white people being thuggish.

For whatever it's worth to you to know this: being considered thuggish, or violent, or hotheaded, or unreasonable is a hot-button issue for working black professionals. I've had neighbors complain to me that they can't disagree or argue with anything at their office, because as soon as they do, their coworkers start shaking their heads and signaling "there goes the black guy again". Knowing this, you start to see that it is also a privilege to be able to argue, even vehemently, without inadvertently confirming a malignant stereotype about your heritage or upbringing.

Either way one reads that particular point though, I agree that it isn't the most compelling in the story.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#292

Post by groby_b » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:10 PM UTC

to_jon wrote: post #232

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

"I agree, but some of his content will be a barrier for some people. I'm sure if the tone of the post was milder, most of the comments here would be supportive." -- too typical a response "Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." -- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case As a white m…

Sigh. It's classic derailment. "Your damaging your cause by being so aggressive". "You're seeing problems where none exist".

You get the same answers when you debate women's issues. And I have no doubt any other minority's issues, too. It's so common there's even a bingo card for it: http://tumblinfeminist.tumblr.com/post/12171070300/notasking...

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#293

Post by S4M » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:11 PM UTC

Above everything else in that story, I am most shocked by the fact that the guy Steve said to the OP something in the lines of "you should consider yourself lucky your ancestors have been slaves, so that you can work in this company". I find this statement really, really shocking, and I think the OP should have reacted strongly and put this guy to his place. It was a private meeting so there were no witnesses, but he should have done something. Take Steve out of the conference room and say "can you please repeat in front of everyone what you just said to me?".

I mean, you should be able to sue people for saying enormities like that!

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#294

Post by jeffreybaird » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:11 PM UTC

I don't know if the OP is reading this but he should probably be a little careful. I found it incredibly easy to track down "Steve's" Linkedin profile. While what he went through was awful, fighting a libel suit would only make this worse even if he eventually won.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#295

Post by herval » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:12 PM UTC

I'm genuinely curious about one thing: is the person that asked about the calculator (necklace) also being racist?

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#296

Post by jeffreybaird » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:12 PM UTC

I don't know if the OP is reading this but he should probably be a little careful. I found it incredibly easy to track down "Steve's" Linkedin profile. While what he went through was awful, fighting a libel suit would only make this worse even if he eventually won.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#297

Post by MartinCron » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:13 PM UTC

dmorgan wrote: post #287

MartinCron wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the word "oppression" perfectly applies to multiple unwelcome instances of strong verbal abuse coming from someone in a privileged class directed at someone in a non-privileged class. If there's a better word, I haven't found it yet. Even if we take the most charitable interpretation possible, that this wasn't anything more than "talking BS" and "irreverent jokes" and that the person making jokes was just clu…

> I think the word "oppression" perfectly applies to multiple unwelcome instances of strong verbal abuse coming from someone in a privileged class directed at someone in a non-privileged class. If there's a better word, I haven't found it yet. Are white people supposed to be privileged in a company and black people non-privileged? Was he denied changes to get a promotion, or had he to make do with less wage? What was…

Are you seriously asking these questions? Do you realize that you're coming across as defending deplorable behavior? Do you care? Would you say these sorts of things to the author's face?

There's a large sea of historical context that we're all swimming in. You can pretend it doesn't exist and make your cute little conjectures about Irish and Redneck jokes.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#298

Post by RivieraKid » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:15 PM UTC

tsahyt wrote: post #199

rmc wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several definitions of racist talk, one is essentially "making references to someone's race and implying everyone in that group is the same (in some attribute)". Lots of people like this definition because it's nice and simple and it means black people in the USA can be racist to white people if they say things like "Dumbwhite". There's another definition, which is talk that's designed to maintain & reinfor…

> it's more racist to say "dumbblack" than "dumbwhite" There are degrees of racism? Wasn't that a binary thing? I understand that racists aren't created equal since some are filled with more prejudices than others but I think the same doesn't apply to racism itself. I'm not arguing that life is harder for people who are (or so we are told, I've got no data) the majority of victims but a victim being racist isn't bein…

"Racism" does not have exact definition. It's just a label that means slightly different things in different contexts. It's an abstraction over a specific type of offensive / hateful behavior. In more in-depth discussions, I think it's better to operate beneath this abstraction, on a lower level: i.e. how much harm saying or doing something does.

In most situations, saying "dumbblack" would be more offensive for black person than "dumbwhite" for white person. Especially in this case. It's like if you had a couple of bad experiences with the police, you could start saying offensive things about police officers in general. You could be accused of "policism" but in fact, it would be quite understandable reaction. When he said "dumbwhite", he was kind of "revenging" their racism, which is very different from saying "dumbwhite" just because he disrespects white people.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#299

Post by victorbstan » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:15 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #165

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

Brilliant analysis. I am one of the readers who had deep concern for the truthfulness of these observations. If they are true, then he got screwed, royally, and should sue. Except for the pendant comment. That's just a case of taking yourself too seriously. Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.

Are you serious? Or just insensitive? And how many nails are needed until you can safely say he's in his coffin ready to be buried? The issue that I have with the whole "don't even go to college/university, just start a startup" is that most colleges/universities will teach you at least something about gender and racial issues. That's not to say everybody that goes through college doesn't come out racist at the end, but at least most people who aren't dense, come out with a bigger understanding of what issues there are for the less privileged, especially if they are not one of the less privileged. You seem to be in big hurry to discredit this guy, I would say you and other people like you just put a nail in your red-neck coffin.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#300

Post by defen » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:16 PM UTC

king_jester wrote: post #50

drats wrote: post #29

"Dumbblack " "then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do" "black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit" " I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they" "I cannot afford to take black people…

This is the equivalent of saying the author of this post is a reverse racist. When was the last time a white person was killed for being white? When was the last time someone came up to a white person and said they should be grateful that their ancestors were slaves? When was the last time the government systematically dismantled the white community in order to enforce racist class oppression? Repeat after me: WHITE…

> When was the last time a white person was killed for being white

You're not helping your cause by making ridiculous statements. The most recent one I could find was 2 weeks ago. http://kstp.com/news/stories/s2778011.shtml

You have to go here to see the police report: http://lakeminnetonka.patch.com/articles/arrest-made-in-conn...

But you have to understand the rules of the game. Unless a black person is literally shouting "die whitey" while stomping someone to death, then it's not a hate crime when a black person attacks a white person, regardless of actual motivation or lack thereof. It's just another random senseless crime and not part of a pattern. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_an...