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GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

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Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#41

Post by palata »

mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

I am genuinely not sure you understand what GrapheneOS is doing here. They were using French servers (OVH) for some infrastucture, and they are moving away from that because they are pissed at France.

They don't make GrapheneOS unavailable to French users, they just change "cloud provider".

There is no negotiation or conflict resolution there: they don't feel safe using a French provider, so they move to a non-French provider, period.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#42

Post by palata »

aborsy wrote: post #27

Canada is liberal and a better option for hosting privacy projects than EU. Every few months a bad proposal comes out of somewhere in EU. The details of this case don’t matter, the tendency is big government control.

EU is not a country. There are many different countries in the EU.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#43

Post by anvuong »

mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

> self-advertised as uncompromising privacy focused OS

> didn't even compromise even a bit (negotiation is already a compromise) against a country who is notorious for advocating for privacy-invasive policies in recent years

> get lectured by yc high-horse rider on the obligation blah blah, even when by and large this move doesn't materially affect the end-users in any substantial way

I used 4chan style because most of the times 4chan commenters have more sense than yc these days. Many people here do live in glass houses.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#44

Post by [deleted] »

palata wrote: post #35
ranger_danger wrote: post #11

For what it's worth, Micay has a long history of accusing other people of slandering the project without providing any evidence or rebuttals. When asked for details, he gets defensive and accusatory, then creates multiple sockpuppet accounts to argue the same points over and over.

I read about this when I first discovered GrapheneOS, and it looked like it. And it may be partially correct. But on the other hand, I have read a lot of "drama" between e.g. /e/OS and GrapheneOS, and more often than not, it looked like GrapheneOS was criticising actual limitations of /e/OS and /e/OS (a mix of the community and official comms) seemed to be the one being unfair. GrapheneOS generally is pretty direct a…

[deleted]

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#45

Post by immibis »

Bender wrote: post #2

They should consider making their primary site a .onion and then have clear-web portals in many countries that serve as a secondary class site or cache . The physical location of the primary site should be unknown.

It's amazing to me that everyone even slightly disliked by the ruling class isn't doing this. Like remember when Nintendo took down a bunch of Switch emulators... from GitHub? Why were they primarily on GitHub?

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#46

Post by immibis »

anonymousiam wrote: post #6
Bender wrote: post #2

They should consider making their primary site a .onion and then have clear-web portals in many countries that serve as a secondary class site or cache . The physical location of the primary site should be unknown.

It's a sad fact that there's just no way for GrapheneOS to win this fight. The intelligence agencies of every world government are on one side, and a relatively poor organization that produces less restricted cell phone software is on the other.

And mostly (but not entirely) neutral judges are the arbitrators.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#47

Post by tracker1 »

aborsy wrote: post #27

Canada is liberal and a better option for hosting privacy projects than EU. Every few months a bad proposal comes out of somewhere in EU. The details of this case don’t matter, the tendency is big government control.

I'm not sure... they've added some pretty repressive language controls themselves already. Let alone proposed legislation.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/07/canadas-bill-c-2-opens...

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#48

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

fooqux wrote: post #21
mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

> it sends the message that GrapheneOS can be pushed around and manipulated: A slight hint of a threat and they flee. Somehow I doubt France thinks they "won". What they wanted was a back door into the OS. Not only did they not get that but they lost what little bargaining power they had when gOS left France. > it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation You don't negotiate with terrorists. Obviously…

> Somehow I doubt France thinks they "won". What they wanted was a back door into the OS.

There is absolutely nothing pointing to France wanting a backdoor in GOS. The only thing we have is one prosecutor quoted in a far right journal saying she wouldn’t hesitate to charge them if they are linked to organised crimes and refuse to cooperate.

When France wants a backdoor in an open source project, they do it like every modern country with an intelligence service, sneakily.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#49

Post by doubled112 »

serial_dev wrote: post #39
9dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not. In fact, many users will gladly give away any notion of privacy whatsoever in exchange for a Candy Crush lootbox.

I want digital privacy… but a lootbox is a lootbox.

As long as the cost/benefit calculation is high enough on your side, you’re fine with it?

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#50

Post by rgblambda »

sunshine-o wrote: post #28
Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

What happened to the founder of Telegram should be enough to discourage any of them to travel in France. Especially since I guess they do not have the same kind of money and influence to fight it back.

A European Arrest Warrant would make the entire EU off limits. Which makes me think they haven't thought this through and are just overreacting, as many on this thread suspect.

If the GrapheneOS maintainers were being advised by a lawyer, they'd surely know that if French Authorities wanted them arrested and they were standing on a street corner in Stockholm, they could just as easily be picked up by police as if they were in a café in Paris. Making the whole France travel ban just a load of theatrics.

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