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France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#151
post #110

so, they are basically confirming Android and Apple have their backdoors as no arrests or seizures on that matter have taken place

Not really. It's one thing trying to bully a relatively small FOSS project, it's quite something else to take on one of the world's biggest companies that can afford a literal army of lawyers and that also has the power to have the US government intervene on their behalf.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#152
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Criminals and traffickers also use knives." London already did this

Not really? You can buy knives in London, and any laws regulating knife purchases are UK-wide, nothing to do with London specifically.

I think the post you’re replying to is alluding to the fact that London has a knife problem, despite carrying knives being illegal there. Meanwhile a number of places don’t have that problem, even though it’s legal there.

BTW As an outsider, this “knife” euphemism caught me off guard a while ago. When you read about these stories from London, it’s usually about machetes. It’s one of a number of euphemisms Brits use around the topic, making everything around the topic sound pretty mild if you’re not from there. Then you learn one more euphemism and think “oh wait, that guy/gal back then was talking about this? wtf?”

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#153
post #123
post #72

I think EncroChat scared them pas-de-merde, and this may be an overreaction by untutored civil servants.

I watched a fascinating documentary about EncroChat ( https://www.channel4.com/programmes/operation-dark-phone-mur... ). It was obvious the police absolutely loved having this real time feed into criminal communications, and thought "let's have more of that please". They don't realise the consequences are that criminals won't use such forms of communication once they know they're backdoored.

Of course they realise it, and they know it's irrelevant, because their job is to catch actual dissidents today, not hypothetical future dissidents.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#154
post #129

The claim in the title of the post is not substantiated in any way. The correct headline here would be ”GrapheneOS worried about France after negative press”

France has threatened us with the same actions they took against SkyECC and Encrochat if we do not cooperate by providing law enforcement access into devices. This was published via Le Parisien in one of their articles and through French state media. They're absolutely threatening us that way.

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#155
post #128

If the small guys are getting threats like this, one can only assume the big guys already have suitable backdoors...

I can understand you thinking that and there's probably some truth to it but do I consider Android and iOS compromised with government backdoors? No. What do I base this on? The lucrative black market for Android/iOS 0days. And who's buying them? Generally, state actors, directly or indirectly. There is an entire ecosystem of Israeli "security" companies that exist to farm out these exploits. This is a big part of wh…

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#158
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

I've been saying this for years: the more power you have the higher standard you should be held in. In most societies on the planet it's the other way around.

Everyone agrees with this obviously but it's like saying that we should be able to levitate or live in utopia. It's almost a law of nature that the types that become powerful are not your most savory individuals and will use the power to reinforce their positions.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#159
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

That is a terrible, terrible idea.

It would make it even easier to hack them, blackmail them, snoop on top secret information. The list goes on.

No, the correct answer is - no backdoors because crypto, because security, because of theft, because of France, or any other government or Uncle Sam.

If they want to protect the children, hunt crime, catch drug dealers, they are going to have to learn criminology.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#160
post #97
post #63

The linked article from Le Parisien (a big French billionaire-owned newspaper) is quite nuanced. It gives the police's view on narco-trafic crime, but also Graphene's take : "Criminals and traffickers also use knives." This organization, which is not a company but a foundation, emphasizes that its solution is used by ordinary people who dislike how apps and operating systems handle their data. It adds that if crimina…

One thing though is - knives, fast cars and cash aren't built with deliberate motivation of thwarting the law enforcement and criminal investigations. GrapheneOS and its systems are - you can walk through history and see that they're deliberately working on systems that defeat law enforcements efforts of collecting data from seized devices and tracking criminal networks. This is a massive difference - even for knives…

Are you livestreaming your face on Twitch right now? If not, why are you deliberately making it harder for police to catch criminals? It would be so much easier for police to catch criminals if everyone livestreamed on Twitch 24/7, it should be a crime not to do that.
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