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France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

mamot.fr

131–140 of 399 posts

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#131
post #78

The claim in the title of the post is not substantiated in any way. The correct headline here would be ”GrapheneOS worried about France after negative press”

It is in third post in the thread: https://mamot.fr/@LaQuadrature/115581775986937247 > Interviewed, she warns that she will “not stop pursuing publishers if links are discovered with a criminal organization and they [GrapheneOS] do not cooperate with justice.”

France has threatened us with the same actions they took against SkyECC and Encrochat if we do not cooperate by providing law enforcement access into devices. The actions they took against those were mass arrests and seizure of servers. We don't have cloud infrastructure for builds/signing but regardless we don't want the French state taking over our website, etc. so we're leaving France and OVH.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#132

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115589833471347871 > The FBI ran a sting operation in Europe where they created their own 'secure' phone and messaging platform. Their OS used portions of our code and was heavily marketed as being GrapheneOS or based on GrapheneOS. So how do we know GrapheneOS itself isn't a honeypot? It's run by a mystery org and heavily marketed as being a secure platform. https://en.wikipedia…

> how do we know GrapheneOS itself isn't a honeypot? It's run by a mystery org

No, it's run by a non-profit foundation whose records are public, along with their board of directors who are real people with a paper trail.

It's not some LLC shell company with a fictitious agent listed.

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/cc/lgcy/fdrlCrpDtls.html?p=0&cor...

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#134
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

I'm torn. I don't want backdoors but I do think police with a warrant from a judge should be able to access your phone.

I'm reminded of Mr. Fart's Favorite Colors here - is it even possible to provide warranted exception, protected from abuse?

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#135
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

I'm torn. I don't want backdoors but I do think police with a warrant from a judge should be able to access your phone.

Then you must provide access to your phone or be held in jail indefinitely / until you comply for violating that court order.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#137
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

Even then the backdoor should be on their government device and not the personal devices. Note that having their personal device when doing government work should be prohibited (that is you can't have it in your pocket when working). As is using your personal device for anything government (other than a formula check your government device call/text - employees should be regularly tested that they report any governme…

I mean, this already isn’t permitted in the US yet somehow I’ve read her emails and his signal chats.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#139
post #52

At the end of the day, these attacks on privacy are always in reality for keeping incompetent politicians and bureaucrat's safe from meritocracy. Built into the onslaught of demands of backdoors are two key ideas: A) That the backdoors will only be exploitable by the authorities and that B) they're even necessary to carry out their work in stopping trafficing. I think most people know by now the first idea is prepost…

> The EU should focus on better police tools and tactics that detect and track the actual movement of goods.

This is a point that doesn't get raised very often: the actual crimes occur in "meat space", not electronically on a device. Haven't police and intelligence been solving crimes like that since 'the beginning'?

The coordination of a crime may be done electronically 'on device', but the actual crime occurs somewhere physical, generally with physical objects and the presence of the criminals themselves.

Why is it suddenly so much more difficult for law enforcement to do their jobs that the privacy of every member of the public needs to be able to be invaded?

Are police forces under-resourced to take on the "how it's always been" approach to fighting crime? Are law enforcement being subject to inapplicable software engineering rules of efficiency to save money? (Ie. Too much focus on the metrics, not the outcomes).

Don't police have great physical surveillance tools? Yes, it may cost more in having to physically surveil targets, but that seems (to me, and this is where the rift lies) that's a good compromise opposed to surveiling the entire populace.

Anyone can say anything in a piece of correspondence that they think is private. If it's made public it completely changes the context. A joke between friends, criminals or not, can look like conspiracy to X, Y, or Z. Research for a crime novel could appear like preparation for a Louvre heist. And even if it is, it's not a crime until it occurs, until that point it's not 'real', the thing suspected of being planned hasn't actually taken place until it takes place. Are we implementing pre-crime without the three psychics?

And one thing I know for sure is that law enforcement do not understand context. They're bred to find guilt, not innocence, and having a larger haystack they'll find plenty of hay they think look like needles. Gotta hit those metrics.

There's plenty of nuance missing from what I've written here, but I fairly strongly feel it's leaning towards reality rather than liberal fantasy.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#140
post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

> if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops. Last time I checked, politicians and cops are private citizens... Wherever you stand on this, I can't understand the justification for this "one rule for thee" position.

You cant understand why the people with a monopoly on violence and force have higher scrutiny?
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