Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#21

Post by recoiledsnake » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:03 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #19

objclxt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...you pay Microsoft though! Microsoft has per-device fees for Android arranged with most major manufacturers (including Samsung), in exchange for which they don't sue for patent infringement. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/motorola_samsung_pat... It has been suggested by some people (somewhat tongue in cheek) that in some cases the license fee for Windows Phone is less than the patent licenses for Android.

It's not. HTC only pays $5 per phone for example. HTC pays up to $45 for other royalties (unrelated to Android), though, so it's not a big deal.

I think the articles were about Microsoft making more money(in total) on patent licenses on Android phones rather than the Windows Phone nascent platform.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#22

Post by mtgx » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:04 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #3

Don't get too excited just yet- they might just be making dev hardware for now. Nokia's "all in" on WP means that they have a great hardware partner for the time being, I'm not sure they'd want to jeopardise that just yet.

Nokia's "all-in" strategy with WP, means it's "bye-bye Nokia" if Microsoft makes their own phone, though. The others can and will still rely on Android for the bulk of their sales anyway. What will Nokia rely on? Nothing.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#23

Post by mtgx » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:05 PM UTC

If Microsoft is not categorically denying this rumor by the end of the week, then it's true. It might still be true if they give some vague PR statement that sort of says they are not making a phone yet, but not really.

I wonder how this rumor will hit their partners, since even most of their PC partners didn't know about the Surface tablets before they announced it.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#24

Post by drivebyacct2 » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #14

potatolicious wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is free. Samsung, LG, et al aren't paying for the privilege of competing with the OS-builder. Microsoft also has much stricter rules re: customization for WinPhone, presumably as a response to the craptastic custom UIs LG, Motorola, and Samsung have been implementing for Android. In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing…

>Android is free As I noted in another comment in this story, this is wrong. AOSP is open and free, but it is not very useful without access to the half million apps in the Google Play store, Maps, Navigation, Youtube, Google Now etc. >In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing against the platform owners themselves who are allow…

It's not the same brand as open source "free", but access to the Google apps is indeed free.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#25

Post by dpark » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:07 PM UTC

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #18

ericdykstra wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they already kicked Nokia in the face by giving HTC rights to call their 8X and 8S "Windows Phone" and basically saying it's their flagship at that event a few weeks ago. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see them make their own; they're already making their own tablet, so it's not like it's a big stretch.

It definitely benefits Nokia and MS to have more partners onboard with Windows Phone 8. I really liked the look of the 920, but I was worried it would never reach a critical mass of developer support with only Nokia building devices. If they could get one more major partner they could be a viable third platform, the way RIM was before they tanked. Unfortunately, Motorola is a no-go because of the Google acquisition,…

Samsung is also producing Windows Phone 8 devices. Time will tell how committed they are to the platform, but I believe that a very large portion of WP7 devices were from Samsung.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#26

Post by IanDrake » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #2

If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy. Up until Microsoft's (ostensible) goal has been to secure a place for a proprietary, commercial OS that runs on OEM hardware (pretty much the Windows model on mobile). Microsoft jumping in with their own devices would probably signal the end of that, and the whole business will become much more Apple-like (vertically integrated, no OEMs). I can't imagine an OEM…

>I can't imagine an OEM wanting to sleep in Microsoft's bed when they're going toe to toe with the people who build the OS themselves.

So, are you saying if Apple opened up and allowed OEMs to license iOS, no one would sign up?

I think every phone maker would jump on that.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#27

Post by pgeorgi » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:17 PM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #10

jdminhbg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't pay Google for Android.

Actually you do, unless you're Amazon. For access to the Google Play store, GMail, Maps, Navigation, Youtube etc. etc. Those are neither free nor Free. http://www.reghardware.com/2011/09/21/andy_pad_chief_admits_... It's very telling that most people do not know this. Google sent a C&D to the Cyanogen Mod folks for bundling these apps. If you install CM, you have to download the app store app from someone committing…

That doesn't say anything about cost. The deal on Google apps is (or used to be) membership in the OHA, which is about app level compatibility.

There are two possible impedients for cheap devices there: 1. minimum hardware requirements (which exploded over the last few Android releases), 2. Google might not care about herding a bunch of small vendors.

reghardware merely "implies" that it's about cash.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#28

Post by cooldeal » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:21 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #24

cooldeal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Android is free As I noted in another comment in this story, this is wrong. AOSP is open and free, but it is not very useful without access to the half million apps in the Google Play store, Maps, Navigation, Youtube, Google Now etc. >In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing against the platform owners themselves who are allow…

It's not the same brand as open source "free", but access to the Google apps is indeed free.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free

It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps.

Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say the Kindle Fire?

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#29

Post by roc » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:24 PM UTC

hospadam wrote: post #16

After Microsoft's announcement of the Surface Tablet... people had to see this coming. I'm not debating the merits of doing this or not doing this... but if MS was willing to make their own tablet, surely they were willing to make their own phone. What's interesting is the difference between the mobile and PC market. With PCs - there is no other (realistic) OS for OEM makers to use. I mean, they just have to keep usi…

The only OEM making Windows Phones that isn't already also making Android phones is Nokia. And given the resounding thud with which Nokia's Windows Phones have fallen (fairly or not), it seems unlikely that Nokia will exclusively pursue Windows Phone to its own demise, Elop or no.

So... there's really no risk to Microsoft here. It's just yet-another Hail Mary For Traction.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#30

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 7:34 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #26

potatolicious wrote: post #2

If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy. Up until Microsoft's (ostensible) goal has been to secure a place for a proprietary, commercial OS that runs on OEM hardware (pretty much the Windows model on mobile). Microsoft jumping in with their own devices would probably signal the end of that, and the whole business will become much more Apple-like (vertically integrated, no OEMs). I can't imagine an OEM…

>I can't imagine an OEM wanting to sleep in Microsoft's bed when they're going toe to toe with the people who build the OS themselves. So, are you saying if Apple opened up and allowed OEMs to license iOS, no one would sign up? I think every phone maker would jump on that.

Honestly, if Apple opened up iOS to OEM licensees, but made clear that they were still going to ship their own devices? Who in the blue hell wants to go toe to toe with Apple on hardware?

Granted, you'd still have a few (insane) OEMs willing to cough up the money to try, but mostly on the notion that they will convert a portion of the coveted iOS userbase to their brand - a userbase that doesn't exist in WinPhone land. At all.

So really, where exactly will OEMs find the motivation to ship any WinPhones at all once Microsoft enters the hardware game for themselves? They'd be paying exorbitant sums to continue using an OS that already wasn't selling, just so they can now compete with a player that has every advantage available.

I'd be incredibly surprised if we don't see a mass OEM exodus from WinPhone if MS enters the hardware game. Not that there's really that big of an exodus to be had in the first place, though...