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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

311–320 of 561 posts

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Suicidal ideation at 7 years old is not normal kid behavior, neither is sudden and unprecedented paralyzing anxiety over the prospect of ordinary things like going to a friend's birthday party or trying a new playground. Me and my mom are on identical doses of Prozac to treat very similar symptoms. We consulted with a child therapist, a pediatrician, and a psychiatrist.

You are shockingly patient and nice to these people who are going out of their way to be judgmental jerks.

Kudos to you; you're inspiring me to find more grace in my life, but don't feel obligated to respond to these people who are trying only to bring people down.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#312
post #257

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There is no effect which is more long term than death. It is incredible to me that this is not obvious. But if you want other potential long term effects: Lower bone mineral density, increased risk of fractures, osteoporosis Sexual dysfunction / PSSD (Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction) extra pyramidal symptoms (akathisia, Parkinsonism, dystonia, tardive dyskinesia) emotional blunting / apathy slowed thinking, brain fog in…

I, like every other person who hasn't been living under a rock, am abundantly aware of corruption in Big Pharma and medicine. If my mother and I have both taken a given well-known medication for decades and found it effectively treated a condition that may be hereditary with no negative side effects, and my son is demonstrating symptoms similar to mine and my mother's, is it unreasonable to tolerate my son trying the…

My deepest views on this subject are personal, subjective, and more controversial. I have watched several family members take antidepressants for upwards of four decades, and I myself suffered terrible depression throughout my childhood and teenage years. Despite my depression, I always avoided antidepressants for some ineffable reason-- a hunch, a nebulous suspicion, I'm not sure what to call it. Somewhere in my mid twenties my depression lifted and never returned. I look back on my life, which has been filled with hardship, and I feel positively disposed to the suffering. The suffering made me who I am. I feel strongly that my character would be diminished had I not experienced it.

On the other hand, I watched family members take these drugs, and their lives seem somehow dulled-- filled with banal tragedy, like staying in a bad marriage, or not being particularly interested in their grandchildren. I have a theory that the drugs make palatable that which otherwise wouldn't be, hence they stay in the bad marriage, the bad job, and they watch their bad TV and eat their bad food and everything is fine. I've also seen one of them go off the drugs, and for a couple months they were a much more vibrant person. I saw them express joy. I feel a low grade rage toward the industry that I've been deprived of this version of them. I do entertain the possibility that I'm imagining it all. Maybe things really would have been worse without the drugs. But I am glad no one ever insisted, or even strongly advocated I take them myself.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the pediatrician is getting a kickback for prescribing it?

I'm big on medications for brain stuff but uh yes, in the US, doctors get lots of kickbacks for prescribing drugs. Usually this takes the form of "I'm prescribing you with instead of generic" or "I'm prescribing you this specific drug from this class of drug" https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

Okay, but nobody is paying doctors to prescribe medications like sertraline and fluoxetine that have been generic for years and are cheap as dirt.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more interested in where your 7-year-old even learned phrases like "I feel like I shouldn't be on Earth anymore."

7 year olds are second graders in school. They are exposed to plenty.

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more interested in where your 7-year-old even learned phrases like "I feel like I shouldn't be on Earth anymore."

I’m with you on this. Granted my oldest is only 5, but anything profound my kids say can be traced back to something they heard

Teachers / schools / mandatory privilege education

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#317

I thought Prozac was for anxiety.

Fluoxetine has received FDA approval to treat major depressive disorder (8 and older), obsessive-compulsive disorder (7 and older), panic disorder (with or without agoraphobia), [and] bulimia nervosa...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459223/

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the pediatrician is getting a kickback for prescribing it?

I'm big on medications for brain stuff but uh yes, in the US, doctors get lots of kickbacks for prescribing drugs. Usually this takes the form of "I'm prescribing you with instead of generic" or "I'm prescribing you this specific drug from this class of drug" https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

> doctors get lots of kickbacks for prescribing drugs.

From your own source: "In 2024: $172 or more in general payments have been received by half of physicians."

Even if all of those payments count as kickbacks, a median of $172 in a year (significantly less than 0.1% of the median physician's annual pay) is not "a lot of kickbacks".

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#319

This should get locked. People are horrible.

Depression is literally a lack of meaning and beauty. This gets imposed on us by society through social norms, and increasingly not working for people

But rather than fixing society, we will impose experimental drugs on kids. In some cases altering their lives irreversibily

It absolutely should be discussed and openly talked about

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s caused by inflammation No, it’s not. Depression can be influenced by inflammation. This thread is a good example of the GIGO pitfalls that researching with chatbots entails.

Yeah, “linked to” is better than “caused by” here, for sure. Not often this kind of thing comes up on HN, so I was replying in haste at a stoplight! I’ll ignore the slight, which you should know better than.

Stopping back in, because I unironically came across someone's almost-surely AI assisted summary that does a better job than I have summarizing the processes being discussed:

== === Why the Sick Get Sicker Most people think illness progresses because of pathogens, toxins, or genetics — but the deeper truth is that tension, stress, and breathing patterns control the trajectory of health more than anything else.

When the body is stressed, the breath changes.

When the breath changes, the lymph stagnates.

When the lymph stagnates, toxins accumulate.

When toxins accumulate, inflammation accelerates.

And that is how sick becomes sicker.

Here’s the breakdown:

1. Stress Immediately Changes Your Breathing Pattern

When the nervous system senses stress — emotional, physical, mental, or energetic — breathing becomes:

• shallow

• rapid

• high in the chest

• tight in the ribs

• limited in diaphragm expansion

This cuts oxygen supply, raises cortisol, and signals the body to brace.

Bracing = stagnation.

2. Your Breath Controls Your Lymphatic System

The lymphatic system is the body’s drainage system, and it has no pump of its own.

It relies entirely on: • diaphragmatic breathing

• muscle movement

• fascia softness

• a calm nervous system

Shallow breathing = no diaphragm movement.

No diaphragm movement = lymph stagnation.

When lymph stagnates:

• waste can’t drain

• toxins recirculate

• inflammation builds

• swelling increases

• the immune system gets overwhelmed

This is why people in long-term stress decline rapidly.

3. Chronic Tension Physically Constricts Detox Pathways

Tension in the shoulders, neck, jaw, abdomen, and ribs acts like a clamp on the lymphatic system.

Chronic tightness:

• blocks lymph nodes

• stiffens fascia

• shuts down circulation

• compresses nerves

• restricts oxygen

• slows detox

The body becomes a closed loop where waste can’t leave — so it begins leaking into tissues, joints, and organs.

This accelerates aging, pain, brain fog, and inflammation.

4. This Is the Progression From Sick → Sicker

When breath + lymph + fascia are blocked:

Phase 1 — Shallow breathing

Fatigue, anxiety, tight chest, poor digestion.

Phase 2 — Lymph stagnation

Swelling, puffiness, inflammatory symptoms, chronic infections.

Phase 3 — Detox recirculation

Migrating symptoms, rashes, headaches, histamine issues, chemical sensitivity.

Phase 4 — Systemic overload

Autoimmune symptoms, mold sensitivity, debilitating fatigue, hormone disruption.

It appears “mysterious,” but physiologically it is predictable.

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