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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#251

Post by opo »

robertakarobin wrote: post #151
jacobgkau wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 7 years old is borderline too young to even make a depression diagnosis, and that kid's going to have his brain chemistry altered and essentially be addicted to a drug that he'll have to pay for for the rest of his life.

According to our pediatrician there are no known long-term effects of juvenile Prozac use. The effects may exist, but if they do they are of sufficiently low significance as to not have been detected yet. Interestingly the one possible effect she's aware of is that there may be a correlation with not growing as tall physically as one might otherwise. The data is not conclusive, but it gives me something to blame for…

I appreciate how open and honest you have been in this discussion. While it might be that taking Prozac is the best choice for your child, I have to admit I would never let a pediatrician prescribe Prozac (or any other SSRI) - this is enough outside their normal training, I would want to consult with a specialist. Can't you get a referral to a pediatric psychiatrist of some sort?

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#252

Post by piperswe »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #249
poly2it wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depression is caused by laziness [...]. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy. Do you really believe this, or do you believe your children aren't depressed? Your comment is not in accordance with science. Depression is a complex topic. I'm having trouble imagining a way to be more wrong. Is this satire?

[flagged]

It's almost as if depression reduces your executive function, making it more difficult to exercise each day or consistently clean your house.

And then you feel worthless for not being able to do those things, reinforcing the depression.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#253

Post by pizzafeelsright »

konmok wrote: post #242
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Depression is caused by laziness and anxiety by hopelessness. I wish this were true, but its not even close. I wonder how your kids will react when they move away, and you're not around to police their emotional expression. If they're like me, they will promptly collapse into paralysis and self-destruction. I strongly suggest that you frequently give your kids long stretches of time (months) to practice regulating…

At this age I am teaching emotional regulation on a daily basis.

As for when they grow up, adults who cannot manage their emotions get fired or are sent to jail. It is critical to be slow to anger, quick to forgive, and work at building strong friendships.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#254

Post by konmok »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #249
poly2it wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depression is caused by laziness [...]. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy. Do you really believe this, or do you believe your children aren't depressed? Your comment is not in accordance with science. Depression is a complex topic. I'm having trouble imagining a way to be more wrong. Is this satire?

[flagged]

I know several depressed people that exercise every day and live in a clean house.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#255

Post by burner420042 »

Not to get into the historic details but growing up there was lot of tension in my parent's house. When you're a kid you feel these things and are aware of the issues that cause them, but you haven't yet learned how to talk about them or the right words to describe the truth of them. Instead you internalize them.

The lack of learning constructive perspectives and ways for discussing emotions while young, may very much be a source of depression, the same way people say "he can't help it, he has ADHD".

I was about 16 and the doctor recommended this new SSRI called ... I think it was Paxil, The side effects, especially if you missed a dose are hard to describe. If you missed a dose you couldn't function at school, and everyone thought you were really stoned. Also, you could look at a pretty girl and just nothing. A 16 year old boy doesn't know why THAT's happening, neither does the girl, and it just makes things worse. Try having that conversation with your Dad, while doped out on the drugs he told you to take. Imagine the anxiety. It's really depressing. Better to be alone, and safe in one's bedroom and on the Internet... ( and that was 20 years ago ).

Around the same time there was Ritalin and maybe a few others came out.

The issues kids are facing, the feelings they are then given pills to erase are still there, even when numbed to them. The answer lies somewhere in familial stability and relearning respect?, and how to constructively frame life's difficulties and teach that to our kids.

I would never give my kids anything that altered their brain chemistry. Even as adults, the only way is through.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#256

Post by litigator »

BjoernKW wrote: post #232

[flagged]

During my first manic episode I was handed sertraline. This pushed the mania full send and I lost a lot of time that I can't account for, things I did I can't remember but friends have recalled. Climbing the house to get in through the upstairs window whilst having the house key on me. Locking myself in my room for a week or two convinced I was the real world John Connor and Arnie was looking for me. Blowing all my savings on cocaine for me and anybody in my vicinity in a month. Going through a gram of mdma more than once in a night. Feeling like I was on a therapeutic dose of MDMA for a few months and thinking this was what SSRIs were meant to feel like. The list goes on.

I will admit I was semi cognizant of the distorted thinking/reality so played it down when talking to the psychiatrist I was urgently (+2 months into it) referred to for early psychosis intervention. I was eventually handed a dozen valium (which the doctor was incredibly hesitant to prescribe, for good reasons) which let me sleep and the mania lifted.

I'm terrified of SSRIs now. I have been diagnosed bipolar for a few years now (went private because in the UK unless you're a danger you're ignored). This week was the first session with a clinical psychologist in a bipolar group. Unsurprisingly almost everyone had a similar experience with SSRIs.

I'm speculating here but I'm pretty sure if you did an MRI on my brain you'd see lesions from the mixing of mdma and sertraline (I get myoclonic jerks to this day).

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#257

Post by ckw »

wredcoll wrote: post #216
ckw wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most shocking things I have ever read. There is a black box warning for Prozac: ‘Warning: Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs Increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults taking antidepressants for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders’ Read the package insert: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2011/01... T…

This is such a blatant misrepresentation of the parent post that it feels almost bad faith. The subject was specifically about long term brain chemistry changes. People committing suicide after taking it, while incredibly sad, is completely unrelated.

There is no effect which is more long term than death. It is incredible to me that this is not obvious. But if you want other potential long term effects:

Lower bone mineral density, increased risk of fractures, osteoporosis

Sexual dysfunction / PSSD (Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction)

extra pyramidal symptoms (akathisia, Parkinsonism, dystonia, tardive dyskinesia)

emotional blunting / apathy

slowed thinking, brain fog

increased risk of gastrointestinal bleeding

QT prolongation

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#258

Post by pizzafeelsright »

piperswe wrote: post #252
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's almost as if depression reduces your executive function, making it more difficult to exercise each day or consistently clean your house. And then you feel worthless for not being able to do those things, reinforcing the depression.

I agree 100% and it is an uphill battle requiring significant effort. That is where discipline is required. Exercising that discipline will bring positive results. There is nothing other than self stopping someone from cleaning instead of crying under a blanket.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#259

Post by pizzafeelsright »

konmok wrote: post #254
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I know several depressed people that exercise every day and live in a clean house.

That's unfortunate. Ask they why they are depressed and see if there is any way to fix it.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#260

Post by tondara »

As an adult, Prozac for me has been life changing and for the better. After suffering from anxiety and depression since childhood I have been able to get a new lease on life in my 40s. It is a drug that needs to be respected though, start on the lowest dose and give it months to settle. Find a doctor you trust and that will take time to discuss your situation. I feel that often this class of drugs is often prescribed without careful consideration and people are ramped up to higher dosages faster than they should be by doctors who are rushing to see the next patient.
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