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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#261

Post by BjoernKW »

konmok wrote: post #247
BjoernKW wrote: post #232

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Every medication can have severe and permanent side effects, the question is how often that occurs for a particular drug, and how that stacks up against the quality-of-life improvement from taking that drug.

> Every medication can have severe and permanent side effects

SSRIs are by an order of a magnitude worse than any other common medication in that respect.

Moreover, like I said there's little evidence these drugs actually achieve any quality-of-life improvement beyond a placebo effect.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#262

Post by burner420042 »

robertakarobin wrote: post #141
techietim wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my 7-year-old son just started half that dose This is horrifying.

We had/have a lot of reservations about it too, and discussed it at length with our pediatrician over months of observation. We decided what was more horrifying was hearing a 7-year-old — who has supportive family and friends, good health, no traumatic events, no major life changes going on, never worries where food/shelter is coming from — say he feels like "he shouldn't be on Earth anymore" and suddenly react with…

I appreciate your candor in this. A respectful and on-going discussion and dialogue about this subject is really the best way forward for us all.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#263

Post by integralid »

Razengan wrote: post #111

> treating depression Most of the "treatment" is apparently just telling people to stop feeling sad [0], or giving them drugs [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured but no one bothers to take the time out to sit down and figure out WHY they feel sad and FIX THAT FOR THEM. That takes too much work. Sometimes depression is this vague feeling that this world is just wrong. That Damocles' sword of mortality. The nagg…

>but no one bothers to take the time out to sit down and figure out WHY they feel sad and FIX THAT FOR THEM. That takes too much work

Out of curiosity, have you ever been depressed or do you know people with diagnosed depression?

I ask, because when I first visited a psychiatrist my life was going great - very good job, great financial situation (i think i could FIRE today), happy marriage, perfect health. It didn't save me from recurring self harm and suicidal ideation, and it doesn't explain why I had weeks when I couldn't even open my work email.

Sometimes your brain is just causing your trouble for no reason. Drugs work, or may work, and may save lives. I write this because I had a similar opinion before being personally affected, so I see where you're coming from.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#264

Post by afro88 »

hintklb wrote: post #185
fgonzag wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what having extreme anxiety at that age feels like. As someone who lived through that, I refuse to let him. All of memories of school are just feeling anxious about everything, just tight and suffocated, always in a panic. I started living when I started taking anxiety pills at 39 years old, and I can see my 2 year old having the exact same anxiety ticks and fits I have. I don't know at what age…

The main issue I see is that the anxiety pill is a way to treat the symptoms, not the cause. Do you think that there is a way to treat the underlying cause and not the symptoms?

Often the cause is things that most people can handle, without being able to easily wield the tools to handle them. Having a pill that dulls the symptoms gives space to learn and become adept at the tools

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#265

Post by bossyTeacher »

RickJWagner wrote: post #74

Fortunately, there are well documented lifestyle adaptions that can sharply reduce depression. Religion is a good example. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3426191/

Swapping one problem for another. Religion sounds like the worst place for someone who is mentally vulnerable. It's like pulling out your credit card in a shopping mall full of salesmen who are under tremendous pressure to make big sales asap

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#266

Post by skywhopper »

jacobgkau wrote: post #144
robertakarobin wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had/have a lot of reservations about it too, and discussed it at length with our pediatrician over months of observation. We decided what was more horrifying was hearing a 7-year-old — who has supportive family and friends, good health, no traumatic events, no major life changes going on, never worries where food/shelter is coming from — say he feels like "he shouldn't be on Earth anymore" and suddenly react with…

I'd be more interested in where your 7-year-old even learned phrases like "I feel like I shouldn't be on Earth anymore."

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#267

Post by skywhopper »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #230
robertakarobin wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, us too. Beats us. Sure wasn't around our house, and we can't imagine any family/friends/TV/whatever he may have learned it from.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#268

Post by skywhopper »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #249
poly2it wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depression is caused by laziness [...]. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy. Do you really believe this, or do you believe your children aren't depressed? Your comment is not in accordance with science. Depression is a complex topic. I'm having trouble imagining a way to be more wrong. Is this satire?

[flagged]

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#269

Post by integralid »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #154
area51org wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression isn't just feeling sad. It's not necessarily caused by anything external. You cannot necessarily just "figure out why" you feel bad; that's really not how it usually works.

>It's not necessarily caused by anything external. Y Then how could a drug fix it? We're positing that there is not only a mechanism causing it, but that this mechanism can be manipulated external to their own self/agency/whatever. I think that it is at least as absurd to posit that you can come up with one chemical substance or another that will alleviate their depression when you dismiss the idea of coming up with…

>Then how could a drug fix it?

Many things that are not necessarily caused by anything external can be fixed by drugs. I don't understand your point.

If the problem is brain not working correctly (because some organ is not doing it's job properly) then no sequence of words will make the brain physically fix itself, just like no sequence of words will cure a heart attack.

Of course it depends, and many people just need a correct therapy. I'm not dismissing talking and figuring out the root cause.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#270

Post by tombert »

hintklb wrote: post #198
dekhn wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this area, having credentials makes a difference. Experts matter. Few if any non-medical people can read medical papers and make sense of what they say. There is simply far too much context to evaluate such papers, especially in the cases of complex medical conditions.

Sorry but strong disagree here. I have had a lot of Spinal and sleep issues. I have read almost all new literature on this niche subject and I have brought to my spine doctor some new therapy and treatments they had literally no idea about. Those treatments have changed my life. As an engineer I read a lot of deep technical paper as my day job. Medical papers are comparatively relatively simple. The most complex part…

This just reads as Dunning Kruger-esque to me. You think that because you know how to read a technical paper in engineering, you're as or more competent than a doctor.

Yes, experts are wrong all the time, they have the disability of being human, but this seems like an extremely anti-intellectual take.

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