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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#171

Post by potatocoffee »

fgonzag wrote: post #148
potatocoffee wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

O cool. Do you have any appointments I can book for my kid?

Mine too! Only 2 years old but I can already see the massive anxiety bursts in him. If this guy has a non chemical cure, I'm all for it. In fact I'm actively researching children psychologists to stave off the meds as much as we can, the problem is that 99% of psychologists are quacks, so choosing them is tough.

There's only so many times a kid can get sent home from school for biting/kicking/punching before you realize you need some professional help and will do anything to help the poor kid. I wish you luck.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#172

Post by bgnn »

My own experience with SSRIs was very unpleasant. Sure, it worked to reduce my anxiety problems while I was on them for years. The first year I was off of them was the worst though. I didn't have that bad anxiety ever, as in constant panic and feeking of impeding doom. This made me realize that they aren't really an option of me. So began my long therapy journey. After 7 years of weekly therapy, a healthy work-life balance, and regular exercise I'm just feeling better than ever.

So, I'd buy that they don't fix your brain. They definitely reduced anxiety for me and I can see the value for stabilizing people so they can do the heaking work in therapy.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#173

Post by potsandpans »

potsandpans wrote: post #103
lemming wrote: post #23

Our 11 year old daughter was seriously depressed recently. N=1, but fluoxetine was life changing (and potentially life saving) for her, at least.

Genuine question (which I accept may be too personal to answer): what does depression in someone that young look like? How is it different from the expected hormonal changes that an adolescent is expected to go through?

It's incredible that my last four comments are down voted to -1, for engaging in genuine dialog across topics.

@dang it's hard to believe that I'm not being brigaded.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#174

Post by robertakarobin »

GOD_Over_Djinn wrote: post #167
robertakarobin wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a source for that theory having been debunked? I agree that data has been found that is at odds with the various neurochemical theories but am not aware of the neurochemistry link as a whole having been definitely debunked.

[flagged]

Ah, well-put! I think we may be reacting differently to the same articles. My understanding is that while various neurochemical theories have not been proven as the general public seems to think, they have also not necessarily been disproven or debunked. Certainly it has not been proven that neurochemistry has no role at all.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#175

Post by BeetleB »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #161
BeetleB wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As crazy as it may sound, I think a lot of my depression stems from living a life that is not true to myself and due to countless failed attempts to be someone I cannot never be. As far as I am concerned, depression is just a symptom of my situation and not some true disorder. It's true for some, but be wary of such a generalization. It took many years of people telling me the same thing before I understood what th…

> "Having an objectively crappy life is normal. Being depressed about it isn't." Sounds like a philosophy more than a science. What does "normal" even mean in this context? Are we talking about something measurable? For instance, if the number of people who were depressed about those circumstances doubled (or quadrupled) would it then be normal, and there would be no reason to treat it (because it's normal)? If you h…

> If you have an objectively crappy life, but not just ignore it and instead are incapable of even noticing

Noticing it is very different from being depressed about it.

> What does "normal" even mean in this context? Are we talking about something measurable?

Let's take a trivial example. Person A is depressed because he is unhappy that he doesn't make enough money to travel and buy nice cars. Now take all the people who are unhappy that they cannot afford to travel and buy nice cars. Most will not be depressed - they will merely be unhappy about it.

Person A isn't depressed because he can't travel and buy nice cars. He's depressed and he can't travel and buy nice cars. He's mistakenly coupling the two.

Another tell for these kinds of things: Ever know someone chronically depressed who blames it on X? Then somehow, X is resolved. There may be a temporary improvement, and they go back to being depressed again, only they now blame it on Y? Somehow Y gets resolved and some months later they're blaming it on Z.

Everyone has problems. Including those who are not depressed. Fixing X, Y, Z, AA, AB, and whatever else is not going to take care of the depression.

On the flip side, people who do not suffer from depression make the same mistake: They claim they are not depressed because they "choose" not to let the problems get to them. Self serving beliefs!

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#176

Post by burner23499 »

techietim wrote: post #123
robertakarobin wrote: post #108

I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…

> my 7-year-old son just started half that dose This is horrifying.

It's also horrifying to hear your 7-year old child talk about committing suicide when you have a deep family history of depression, anxiety, and suicide.

Have some empathy.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#177

Post by amanaplanacanal »

jacobgkau wrote: post #130
kstrauser wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If a kid has diabetes, would it be horrifying to treat it? Why would it be different for a neurochemistry issue that makes the same kid tired and sad all the time?

Because the problem's not a "neurochemistry issue" (that theory's been debunked and the "chemicals" in play have never been known), and the solution is "no better than placebo."

I don't think we know if it's a neurochemistry issue. From what I understand what was debunked was the idea that they worked by blocking the reuptake of serotonin specifically.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#178

Post by agumonkey »

hirvi74 wrote: post #43

I can't bring myself to try an SSRI. I just cannot do it. I've got a prescription for an NDRI on my desk, and I still won't take it. I am not anti-psychiatry either. I take psychiatric medication for a different condition already. But something about anti-depressants just doesn't sit well with me. As crazy as it may sound, I think a lot of my depression stems from living a life that is not true to myself and due to c…

SSRI can have annoyances (to stay polite) if you ever need a fix so much that you go that route, be sure to ask about them. Didn't help me really but I believe that sometimes, a bit of chemical (placebo or not) relief can help staying afloat enough to work your way back up quicker.

I understand your comment, my issues were due to life circumstances and not a low level neurological imbalance, and I too dismissed these treatments almost entirely, mostly because they felt like blanket solutions from medical professionals who didn't really listen to symptoms.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#179

Post by thisislife2 »

slantedview wrote: post #159

My understanding with SSRIs and other depression meds is that they are hit and miss for anyone. I have a family member who, as a teen, suffered from severe depression and didn't want to live. Therapy wasn't able to help - it was actually the therapist who recommended more drastic measures such as medication. And so they tried Prozac and that worked. Having seen the reversal myself, it's hard to understand how this is…

The placebo effect ( https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/the-power-... )? (In the context we are discussing it, Prozac could be considered as an active placebo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_placebo ).

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#180

Post by amanaplanacanal »

DANmode wrote: post #157
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s caused by inflammation No, it’s not. Depression can be influenced by inflammation. This thread is a good example of the GIGO pitfalls that researching with chatbots entails.

Yeah, “linked to” is better than “caused by” here, for sure. Not often this kind of thing comes up on HN, so I was replying in haste at a stoplight! I’ll ignore the slight, which you should know better than.

It seems pretty common for people to read "linked to" and interpret that as "caused by". It feels like media had kind of pushed that for a long time.
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