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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#41

Post by chemotaxis »

monero-xmr wrote: post #12

SSRIs literally saved my life, no question about it. Night and day difference, from daily panic attacks destroying my life, happiness, and career, to being almost completely better in 2 weeks after starting. I tried exercise and diet and meditation and you name it, for years! , before I gave medication a go. Do not care what the science says. It 100% worked for me. Please get help if you need it, tens of millions of…

Placebo works very well for many people too! That's precisely the thing. That's what makes these studies tricky.

If you're a doctor, and if Prozac helps your patients, then it's obviously excellent. You should keep writing prescriptions.

If you're a scientist, you obviously want to distinguish between "real" drugs and drugs that help because people believe they should. So, you do these kinds of tests.

And then, from the perspective of ethics, once you know it's just placebo, you kinda shouldn't keep giving it to people, even if it helps? Maybe? I don't know. That's the weird part.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#42

Post by [deleted] »

autumnstwilight wrote: post #29
fragrom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what my psychiatrist more or less warned me about when I went on medication; that a lot of people who are suicidal lack the energy and ability to plan their suicide, and medications can sometimes undo those particular symptoms and people manage to end themselves. I'm not sure what kinds of studies have been done about it, but I've had a few therapists same similar ideas. If it's not a studied phenomenon, then…

I'd like to make the point that even if this does occur, it doesn't mean, "therefore this medication shouldn't be used/is worse than doing nothing," just that awareness and caution is needed. I went through a frankly terrible few months on my current meds because they removed the emotional numbness before removing the bad feelings. However, once that was over they effectively gave me my life back after 10+ years of c…

[deleted]

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#43

Post by hirvi74 »

I can't bring myself to try an SSRI. I just cannot do it. I've got a prescription for an NDRI on my desk, and I still won't take it. I am not anti-psychiatry either. I take psychiatric medication for a different condition already. But something about anti-depressants just doesn't sit well with me.

As crazy as it may sound, I think a lot of my depression stems from living a life that is not true to myself and due to countless failed attempts to be someone I cannot never be. As far as I am concerned, depression is just a symptom of my situation and not some true disorder. For the sake of analogy, I would say it's like food poisoning. Yes, the GI issues are awful, but the body is responding appropriately.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#44

Post by sitharus »

chemotaxis wrote: post #41
monero-xmr wrote: post #12

SSRIs literally saved my life, no question about it. Night and day difference, from daily panic attacks destroying my life, happiness, and career, to being almost completely better in 2 weeks after starting. I tried exercise and diet and meditation and you name it, for years! , before I gave medication a go. Do not care what the science says. It 100% worked for me. Please get help if you need it, tens of millions of…

Placebo works very well for many people too! That's precisely the thing. That's what makes these studies tricky. If you're a doctor, and if Prozac helps your patients, then it's obviously excellent. You should keep writing prescriptions. If you're a scientist, you obviously want to distinguish between "real" drugs and drugs that help because people believe they should. So, you do these kinds of tests. And then, from…

> And then, from the perspective of ethics, once you know it's just placebo, you kinda shouldn't keep giving it to people, even if it helps?

That's a very big ethical question in the medical field. Placebos _do_ help, but only if people believe they will. So is it ethical to lie to a patient and give them a placebo knowing it's likely to help?

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#46

Post by hirvi74 »

floundy wrote: post #26
fgonzag wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, after struggling for 39 years, glp-1 + SSRI + ADHD meds have made me a normal productive human, and 2 years ago I had pretty much given up on the possibility. Having a child forced me to fix my life, and I'm incredibly happy because of it.

[flagged]

Doctors. That is why they prescribe it.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#47

Post by burnt-resistor »

hirvi74 wrote: post #43

I can't bring myself to try an SSRI. I just cannot do it. I've got a prescription for an NDRI on my desk, and I still won't take it. I am not anti-psychiatry either. I take psychiatric medication for a different condition already. But something about anti-depressants just doesn't sit well with me. As crazy as it may sound, I think a lot of my depression stems from living a life that is not true to myself and due to c…

One needs to not work and be able to remain at home for about a week or so to see if the side-effects are manageable. One shouldn't simply continue on with operating machinery or working a job while titrating up a new psychiatric medication. Honestly, employers should offer medical time off for this.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#48

Post by hirvi74 »

MattRix wrote: post #36
floundy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This seems a little snarky. For someone with ADHD it’s not as much about “increased” productivity but rather non-zero productivity.

As someone with ADHD, if your productivity was decreased or did not increase in the slightest, then I doubt a doctor would keep prescribing the medication. Such increases do not have to be astronomically large, but I do believe increasing the productivity of people with ADHD is absolutely part of the benefit.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#49

Post by biff1 »

thebigspacefuck wrote: post #38
lemming wrote: post #23

Our 11 year old daughter was seriously depressed recently. N=1, but fluoxetine was life changing (and potentially life saving) for her, at least.

Placebo can be life changing

Nocebo can too. Apropos the featured article, I wonder if we should worry about that when we report in the popular media that antidepressants trigger suicides.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#50

Post by hirvi74 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #35

This reads to me like over-prescription rather than lack of efficacy but I’m also not a doctor and won’t presume my kneejerk reaction is accurate. We saw a similar whiplash with Ritalin after over-prescribing in the 90’s/2000’s. ADHD medication absolutely works, but for a lot of people it didn’t for this reason.

Even for people with legit ADHD, like myself, medication isn't always a home run. I think something like 10%-20% of people do not respond well to any medications. I personally am only a 'partial responder' in that I only really get an improvement in focus/concentration -- not really anything else. But hell, that is still better than life without medication.
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