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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

111–120 of 561 posts

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#111
> treating depression

Most of the "treatment" is apparently just telling people to stop feeling sad [0], or giving them drugs

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured

but no one bothers to take the time out to sit down and figure out WHY they feel sad and FIX THAT FOR THEM. That takes too much work.

Sometimes depression is this vague feeling that this world is just wrong. That Damocles' sword of mortality. The nagging sense of ultimate pointlessness. You can't really "fix" that. But having stuff to ignore it helps, like video games :')

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to unpack "detox inefficiency" because even a google search comes back with nothing.

When your normal lymphatic processes (and glymphatic processes) are slowed, or near-halted.

It might be worth using those words rather than detox inefficiency because the latter conjures thoughts of woo peddlers.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#113

I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…

Your anecdote has nothing to do with whether it's better than a placebo or not.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#114
post #107

I thought this was already known? I can’t recall exactly but there was some research pointing to SSRIs in general as not being particularly effective at all. They were just hyped a lot and became mainstream.

I wouldn't go that far, but there was a now-famous study (Princeton?) that showed that doing aerobic exercise for maybe 30 mins every day, about five days per week, was equally effective at alleviating depression symptoms.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#115

> treating depression Most of the "treatment" is apparently just telling people to stop feeling sad [0], or giving them drugs [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured but no one bothers to take the time out to sit down and figure out WHY they feel sad and FIX THAT FOR THEM. That takes too much work. Sometimes depression is this vague feeling that this world is just wrong. That Damocles' sword of mortality. The nagg…

Depression isn't just feeling sad. It's not necessarily caused by anything external. You cannot necessarily just "figure out why" you feel bad; that's really not how it usually works.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#116

This reads to me like over-prescription rather than lack of efficacy but I’m also not a doctor and won’t presume my kneejerk reaction is accurate. We saw a similar whiplash with Ritalin after over-prescribing in the 90’s/2000’s. ADHD medication absolutely works, but for a lot of people it didn’t for this reason.

Effect size is strongly affected by severity - people who aren't very ill just don't have as much to gain compared to people who are gravely ill. Widening diagnostic criteria and more liberal prescribing will inevitably lead to a reduction in the observed effect size.

Antidepressants were bona-fide miracle drugs when we first started using them on desperately ill inpatients who experienced every moment as exquisite torture. We saw the most miserable lives completely transformed in a matter of weeks. They have become merely "sorta-kinda useful sometimes" now that we're mainly prescribing them to broadly functional people who are feeling a bit sub-par.

SSRIs are a pretty poor fit for the latter cohort, because SSRIs cause significant emotional blunting in the majority of patients, to the extent that some people hypothesise that emotional blunting is the fundamental beneficial effect. Feeling quite numb is an incredible improvement if you are constantly unbearably miserable. If you have a more normal range of emotional experience than relentless misery, it is likely a sideways move at best; if your core complaint is that you feel numb and apathetic, they're probably actively harmful.

SSRIs are very widely used because of their extraordinary safety, but they're often thoughtlessly prescribed by overworked primary care doctors. There are a wide range of antidepressants (and drugs that have antidepressant effects despite not being marketed as such) that are likely a better option for a large proportion of patients.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "detox inefficiency"? EDIT - I ask because the only results I get when searching are a Harvard article debunking it. I'd rather hear the opinion of someone that actually believes in it before I read about why it's all malarky. I believe in arguing against the best version of someones argument. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-dubious-p...

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/glymphatic-system PS Thanks for keeping this a good place to be! https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html More for the avid reader: 1.) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7698404/ 2.) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40012567/ 3.) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36498538/

Your first linked page has no word "depression" on it

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to unpack "detox inefficiency" because even a google search comes back with nothing.

When your normal lymphatic processes (and glymphatic processes) are slowed, or near-halted.

Can you link any evidence supporting this claim?

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#119

SSRIs literally saved my life, no question about it. Night and day difference, from daily panic attacks destroying my life, happiness, and career, to being almost completely better in 2 weeks after starting. I tried exercise and diet and meditation and you name it, for years! , before I gave medication a go. Do not care what the science says. It 100% worked for me. Please get help if you need it, tens of millions of…

Had you tried a placebo without knowing that it was a placebo? No? Then your story's irrelevant to whether the medication's working (yes, even on you) any better than a placebo would.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#120
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets less interesting when one notices that social animals are much more prone to depression. Inflammation and depression are linked. Infection causes inflammation. It doesn’t follow that depression is caused by infection.

Correct. It’s caused by inflammation, one of the causes being: detox inefficiency.

Can you link any evidence supporting this claim? This term sounds like a standard-issue woo.
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