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How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

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Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#221

Post by usea »

foogazi wrote: post #177
prasadjoglekar wrote: post #11

TLDR: he's a member of the ICC. Issues warrants against Israeli political leaders. Neither Israel nor the USA (nor China, Russia, India) are parties to the international conventions that formed the ICC. He's being sanctioned as a result by the USA, which flowed down to US companies who must follow US law.

> He's being sanctioned as a result by the USA As a result of what ? What’s the trigger cause of the US sanctions ? ICC can’t issue warrants against non ICC countries?

Retribution for acting out of line with those who have this sanction power.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#222

Post by breppp »

7952 wrote: post #78
breppp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the wars in history were fought by empires that were the exact opposite of ethnic-nationalism, and also most genocides. it is completely unrelated

Ethno-nationalism seems to be a strong factor in both Israeli and Palestinian politics. I can't think of a more direct example of ethno-nationalism than the Jewish state. Also, my point was more about how conflict is perceived and litigated in politics and threads like this. Factoids about history are completely irrelevant to that. Its just another abstraction.

> can't think of a more direct example of ethno-nationalism than the Jewish state.

It's a weird concept, which kind of nationalism isn't ethno-nationalist? I can think of maybe two nations whose brand of nationalism does not relate to an ethnic group and I will probably push it for the USA.

Israel is probably the only ethnoreligious nation, and the ethnic part is debatable if you ever seen Israelis, unlike the Palestinian national movement which is ethnic-nationalist

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#223

Post by dragonwriter »

zidad wrote: post #92
7952 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICC could be considered to have jurisdiction over Gaza though. Although obviously that is debatable.

It is not debatable. Palestine is a recognized member so according to the law they have jurisdiction. If these laws have any usefulness if no one will follow it is debatable though.

Since the territorial boundaries of the State of Palestine are, too say the least, disputed, the territorial boundaries of ICC jurisdiction derived from its jurisdiction over acts on the territory of a state party where the state party in question is the State of Palestine is actually a tricky question.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#224

Post by habinero »

qingcharles wrote: post #172
bjord wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all of the above is true, but just to be clear about who we're discussing, weev is a genuine neo-nazi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weev#Alt-right_affiliations

"It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not-very nice people."

weev is not some dude with "not-nice" views. He's a sociopath who, among other things, threatened Kathy Sierra with rape and murder and published her address to his online fans to do the same. He would put her address on Craigslist and claim she was a sex worker.

He definitely deserves what he got.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#225

Post by mothballed »

bjord wrote: post #151
zidad wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but clearly that is not a requirement to be sanctioned nowadays, it just shows how f*d you are when you DO get sanctioned, and the bar for that is lowering by the day it seems.

not arguing with the primary issue at hand, I just don't think we should be using a neo-nazi as the example

The defense of the rights of alleged neo-nazis are a big reason why we have free-er speech in America. The ACLU defended them (see skokie nazis) and helped ensure more free speech in public forums. Dismissing the rights of alleged nazis is how rights get destroyed for everyone, although now in USA we use it for say allegedly "illegal" aliens or people that look foreign.

I assert, they are a perfect example.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#226

Post by embedding-shape »

vlovich123 wrote: post #205
embedding-shape wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention Jim Crow was still in full effect in the US at the time, but somehow wasn't deemed "Crime against humanity". The winners truly do control the history.

Was Jim Crow a federally organized policy bent on extermination? It was state level discrimination that Nazi Germany copied in 1933-1938 to deal with their “Jewish problem”. By 1939 you had formal government-enforced ghettos with forced labor (no equivalent in America at the time) and by 1941 you had mass extinction. Don’t get me wrong - Jim Crow was horrific. But it was state level after effects of the civil war and…

Subjugation or extermination, if it wasn't for the addition of "as part of a war of aggression" to the "Crimes against Humanity", the US would have been considered as participating in crimes against humanity at the same time they were partcipating in the Nuremberg trials.

It's thanks to the US, that crimes against humanity is only considered when there is an active war of aggression, precisely because Jim Crow was a current thing at that time.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#227

Post by Tuna-Fish »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #127
insane_dreamer wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actually happened to the nukes the Ukrainians had? Were they transferred to the US? Destroyed?

Those were Soviet nukes, physically located in Ukraine but not controlled by it, same as any French/US nukes stationed in Germany would not make it a nuclear state. The ones in Ukraine got moved into Russia, in exchange for Ukraine receiving money and security guarantees.

> Those were Soviet nukes, physically located in Ukraine but not controlled by it, same as any French/US nukes stationed in Germany would not make it a nuclear state.

This is not an accurate comparison.

It's not that Russia had nukes in Ukraine and withdrew them. Many of the Soviet soldiers manning them were Ukrainians and stayed behind. Much of the infrastructure for maintaining the Soviet arsenal was also in Ukraine and had to be rebuilt in Russia. The situation was more akin to if the US broke up and Louisiana (which has a lot of nuclear warheads stationed in it) is dealing with whether they are now a nuclear power, or if they need to hand them over to South Carolina or something.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#228

Post by anonymousiam »

poplarsol wrote: post #203

Must suck to be subjected to extraterritorial jurisdiction from a body you have never acknowledged the authority of.

Your comment can be interpreted in two ways:

1) It must suck for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant to be subject to a rogue French judge.

2) It must suck for the judge to face consequences from the US.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#229

Post by TimorousBestie »

vlovich123 wrote: post #196
TimorousBestie wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The firebombing of Tokyo and civilian residential districts in many other cities was what I had in mind, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo 100k dead, 1M homeless, mostly civilian.

All out war is hell and pretending like civilians get a pass from the wave of destruction is naive. However, one main difference people in this thread seem to forget is that America’s civilian kills were about dealing damage to an enemy country within enemy territory. It’s horrific but the main difference was that Germany mass executed and actively tortured civilians within its own territory. America never did that a…

> All out war is hell and pretending like civilians get a pass from the wave of destruction is naive.

Collateral damage is one thing, the deliberate targeting civilians en masse is another. I understand the US Armed Forces and IDF currently justify their excesses by blurring the two concepts together, but they are legally distinct concepts.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#230

Post by HappyPanacea »

vfclists wrote: post #110
prasadjoglekar wrote: post #11

TLDR: he's a member of the ICC. Issues warrants against Israeli political leaders. Neither Israel nor the USA (nor China, Russia, India) are parties to the international conventions that formed the ICC. He's being sanctioned as a result by the USA, which flowed down to US companies who must follow US law.

If the sanctioned Israeli politicians and military commanders think those warrants are baseless, why don't they appear before the courts to defend themselves? This isn't really about the ICC judges. It is about the failure of the major Western countries who are part of the ICC to come to the defence of the judges who they have appointed to make those decisions, and the control Israeli politicians exercise over the Wh…

> If the sanctioned Israeli politicians and military commanders think those warrants are baseless, why don't they appear before the courts to defend themselves?

Because they aren't under their jurisdiction? Because they might believe the court is biased against them?

> Americans don't seem to understand how the moral character of their politicians and their political system is relentlessly degraded by the so called Israel lobby, or they don't care, or have resigned themselves to it.

> And yet on account of Israel, the US applies these sanctions to judges carrying out the duties lawfully, and somehow they don't see how whimsical, capricious, petty and infantile such decisions are and the poor light they present the US in.

You seems to be confused this is done not for Israel's sake but for USA - they don't want the precedent of non-ICC member's government being judged in ICC to protect themselves.

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