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Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

heise.de

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Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#141
post #17

Might be somehow related -ish ; in Poland by rmf24.pl outlet: > On Friday, the Sejm (lower house) passed an amendment to the bill on the provision of electronic services, which allows for the blocking of illegal content on the internet. The new regulations anticipate that the president of UKE (Office of Electronic Communications) and KRRiT (National Broadcasting Council ) will be able to decide on the removal of cont…

Every time when I see how these censorship laws are pushed, I cannot understand how it is possible that anyone of those who vote for them can believe that such laws can achieve their stated goal of "protecting the innocent children". Actually I cannot believe that the voters, or at least most of them, are so stupid that they no longer remember what they were doing as children, so I can only assume that the real purpo…

I saw someone on this site yesterday directly and enthusiastically express support for mass dragnet government surveillance systems.

We need to bring back institutionalization so people like that have somewhere their antisocial tendencies can be contained.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#142
Whenever a new attempt at limiting exposure to what is obviously harmful content (e.g. explicitly violent content, and anything to do with minors), I always see the same patterns of argument against the attempt:

(1) It's the parent's fault.

(2) Freedom! No government censorship!

(3) This is technically impossible to control (the fix is worse than the problem.)

While each point can be argued, I think the debate needs to be framed a different way. We are facing a dosage and availability problem, just as in comparing, in order of harmfulness: coffee, alcohol, and heroin.

We know what happens when a harmful substance suddenly becomes widely available. Do people say "hey I drank some beer when I was a kid so all drugs are fine, including opioids, in unlimited amounts"? And, "if your kids gets addicted to opioids, it's the parent's fault for not keeping it away from them" (when your trusted doctor prescribed them first?) Or, "people are free to do what they want, and it is technically impossible to control the supply of opioids anyway, so why bother"?

The unfiltered internet is FLOODED with violent, disturbing pornographic images that literally NO ONE should ever see. It's not some sort of law of nature that this content exists - humans made it and put it there, and the wide availability and potency of this content is the problem. It isn't seeing someone's naked behind in a context-appropriate scene in a movie (that's closer to coffee in the above example.)

As it turns out, I think this law is a good step, but far from complete or perfect (or even good.). Requiring each individual to personally set up 100% effective filters is an impossible burden. For sure, when I had young kids a decade ago, I tried, and I also talked to my kids about it. But how about also that drug dealer isn't allowed to sneakily approach my kids with free samples? And I can reasonably expect that my kids aren't forced to walk through the floor of a casino, with all the flashing lights and prostitutes, on their way to school? Since most school work requires the internet these days, that's what it feels like as a parent.

I have two adult kids, one doing well (despite visiting some questionable sites as a youth, I found out later), and one struggling, in part from the crap that is found on the internet. I know many of my peers with young adult children are telling the same story - at least one of their kids is way off the rails with a serious real-life problem, usually fueled by the internet casino in some way (and before you tell me we were all bad parents, these are now adults in their 20's and 30's, who mostly seemed normal and well-prepared after high school.)

Now, I am not completely blaming the internet, an excellent tool that has improved many things in my lifetime, for these outcomes. But let's not kid ourselves - there is a huge distinction between, say, Google Maps, and animal torture videos.

This is a hard problem, with lots of nuance and gray areas. It's the entire reason that laws and courts exist - sometimes you really do just need to sit down with a group of people and come to some sort of solution, however imperfect, and iterate to make it better.

Because clearly something has to happen - the opioids coming through the municipal internet pipes aren't going to be completely remediated with a personal water filter. This law provides for free water filters, but ones that won't work everywhere without prohibition-like enforcement (e.g. open source, DIY distributions of Linux.) It's part of the solution, far from perfect, and far from complete. But we are done doing nothing.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. If you can't find a way to do so, then it becomes illegal to distribute or use Arch Linux.

Literally no one is going to get arrested for installing Arch Linux.

... because they won't be able to, because the project will have been shut down.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until Linux is going to be forced into the same regulation. And then until new laws criminalize attempts to bypass the "porn filter" no matter what you use.

But where’s the problem? This is opt in. KDE already has a kiosk mode for kids. Add a content filter aka adblocker for porn, done. I don’t understand the outrage here. Many parents who are technically illiterate would like to be able to leave their 10yo alone with a computer without having to worry. Rn the only option for that is nintendo/playstation/xbox. Smartphones aren’t.

Do you maintain any software? I have a few features I need you to add. No, you don't get any choice. Where's the problem?

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally no one is going to get arrested for installing Arch Linux.

... because they won't be able to, because the project will have been shut down.

Afaik Arch isn't German, so why would it be shut down?

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#146
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops a kid from saying "I am an adult" via this header without some draconian client-side enforcement?

You add draconian client-side enforcement via parent controls. You can even mandate that stores ask for whom the device will be and provision it accordingly with the flag being automatically removed in the future when the person is of age.

This cannot, of course, be achieved with open, hackable software on the client device. So you have to outlaw that.

Sorry, no.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... because they won't be able to, because the project will have been shut down.

Afaik Arch isn't German, so why would it be shut down?

This is part of a wave of similar bullshit worldwide. And we have a bunch of countries trying to enforce their bullshit extraterritorially.

Also, your lack of concern for any people or projects who may happen to actually be German is... disturbing.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Citation needed] Multiple studies have shown that porn, in and of itself, is not damaging. The phenomenon of "porn addiction" appears to come entirely from people who think they shouldn't be looking at porn for various (mostly religious) reasons still looking at it, and feeling shame.

Can you also provide a citation?

Sure, here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202207/...

> People who believe they have a porn addiction typically think their sexual behaviors are abnormal.

> In reality, however, their sexual behaviors tend to be similar to others'.

> Porn addiction typically involves a moral incongruence between sexual attitudes and sexual behaviors.

> By medicalizing problematic porn use, people can avoid taking personal responsibility for sexual behaviors.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#149
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You add draconian client-side enforcement via parent controls. You can even mandate that stores ask for whom the device will be and provision it accordingly with the flag being automatically removed in the future when the person is of age.

This cannot, of course, be achieved with open, hackable software on the client device. So you have to outlaw that. Sorry, no.

I don't think it'll need draconian enforcement, parental controls on iOS and Android can co-exist with Linux. Having the option to enable specific filters on a client side and requiring a pass-code or OS level permissions to change them seems like a realistic way to tackle this that doesn't end in dangerous government power concentration.

As always with security, perfect is the enemy of good. A good set of hard to change - for children - client-side filters would do wonders in terms of real improvement. As much as I'm tired of the LLM hype, they might actually be a good fit for such tasks.

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