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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#491

Post by array_key_first »

pembrook wrote: post #457
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most criticism of GDPR on HN is a criticism of bad-faith attempts to pretend to comply, many of which are expressly forbidden by the GDPR. It's a well-written, plain English regulation, and I encourage everyone to read it before criticising it. (At the very least, point to the bits of the regulation you disagree with: it should only take around 5 minutes to look up.)

I would call this the religious zeal response, it's been parroted so many times here that it's become fact, even though this is false. The full text of GDPR is 261 pages long with 99 articles and 173 recitals. Here's a condensed version and guide to reading the actual passages that matter, still 88 pages long: https://www.enterpriseready.io/gdpr/how-to-read-gdpr/#:~:tex... And even if it was, being easy to read is no…

Right, but there's also the competing religious zealots who are ideologically opposed to regulation... like as a concept.

What you need to realize is that of course companies hate regulations. Every company, anywhere on Earth, will tell you regulation X is bad. All of them. They will do everything they can possibly do to not have the regulation.

When slavery was outlawed in the US, you can bet your ass that every single bad-faith recreation of slavery was tried. Many of them highly successful, and some taking over 100 years (yes, really!) to be fixed.

What that means is that, just because a company puts up a cookie banner, or says "this law sucks", doesn't mean you should take that to heart. Of course, to them, it sucks, and it's too complicated, and it's all legalese, and la dee da. They would prefer to hire children, okay? And we know that, for a fact, because they did. So just, grain of salt.

Doesn't mean the law is good either, but just know these are the adversarial forces here.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#492

Post by Razengan »

energy123 wrote: post #304
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

I've stopped thinking of regulations as a single dial, where more regulations is bad or less regulations is bad. It entirely depends on what is being regulated and how. Some areas need more regulations, some areas need less. Some areas need altered regulation. Some areas have just the right regulations. Most regulations can be improved, some more than others.

Seems like only AI could possibly keep track of all the practically countless variables involved in running human civilization now and keeping everyone happy.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#493

Post by array_key_first »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #350
zelphirkalt wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A site that cannot exist without collecting not needed personal data and without selling out its visitors, has no justification of continuing to exist. Don't let them guilt-trip you.

that just shallow and one sided argument that never respect another side of coin

It's also true.

Not every business model is viable, and that's life. I can't run a hitman business. Because that's illegal. Oh well, too bad, so sad. This is what makes the world a somewhat decent place.

If we make things that suck ass illegal and then, as a byproduct, a bunch of businesses can no longer make money - then good. That's the correct outcome. This is how a free market works. You want to win customers? Make a good product, have a good model, don't cheat by lying to customers, or doing shit without their consent.

We don't want scams, scams are bad. If those go away that's a net benefit for humanity.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#494

Post by tonyhart7 »

array_key_first wrote: post #493
tonyhart7 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that just shallow and one sided argument that never respect another side of coin

It's also true. Not every business model is viable, and that's life. I can't run a hitman business. Because that's illegal. Oh well, too bad, so sad. This is what makes the world a somewhat decent place. If we make things that suck ass illegal and then, as a byproduct, a bunch of businesses can no longer make money - then good. That's the correct outcome. This is how a free market works . You want to win customers? M…

what do you mean illegal???

tell that to Ads advertising business that bringing billions every year, and its legal btw

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#495

Post by fsckboy »

ranger_danger wrote: post #488
fsckboy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've stopped thinking of automobile repair as a single dial, where more automobile repair is bad or less automobile repair is bad. It entirely depends on what is being repaired and how. Some areas need more automobile repair , some areas need less. Some areas need altered automobile repairs . Some areas have just the right amount of automobile repair . Most automobile repairs can be improved, some more than others.…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

false equivalence describes a false equivalence. the equivalence that I pointed out was true. he didn't say anything.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#496

Post by ndesaulniers »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

I wish we standardized on Do Not Track headers. Cookie banners are a plague. Thanks Europe.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#497

Post by mr_toad »

nonethewiser wrote: post #238
hdgvhicv wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not setting a cookie until the user does something active when I then tell them (say on “log in” or “add to basket”.

I dont think you actually need a cookie for that, technically. But I take your point. What about trackers which they want to set immediately on page load? Just separate prompts for each seems worse than 1 condensed view. You might say "but trackers suck - I don't care about supporting a good UX for them" and it would be hard to disagree. But I'm making the point that its not malicious compliance. It would be great if…

> But I'm making the point that its not malicious compliance.

It’s totally technically feasible to have a non-blocking opt-in box.

But sites effectively make a legally mandated opt-in dialog into an opt-out dialog by making it block the site. Blocking the page loading until the banner is dismissed is definitely malicious, and arguably not compliant at all.

And lets not get started on all the sites where the banner is just non-functional smoke screen.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#498

Post by fsckboy »

array_key_first wrote: post #486
fsckboy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've stopped thinking of automobile repair as a single dial, where more automobile repair is bad or less automobile repair is bad. It entirely depends on what is being repaired and how. Some areas need more automobile repair , some areas need less. Some areas need altered automobile repairs . Some areas have just the right amount of automobile repair . Most automobile repairs can be improved, some more than others.…

Well you can't just replace a word with a different word and then act like things are the same. If you do choose to do that, you, at the very least, have to explain how 'automobile repair' and 'regulations' are analogous. Because in my mind, they are not. There are many, many people ideologically opposed to regulation. I've never met anyone ideologically opposed to auto repair, or even just opposed in general.

i could have chosen anything, you choose and do it. he didn't say anything at all.

"i no longer consider these issues to be black and white [riffing on another comment], i now see it more nuanced, where some things need more of something and others need less of that thing. deep, no?"

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#499

Post by array_key_first »

cess11 wrote: post #169
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hackers should know the government is never on your side Never is naive. Hackers should understand governments are complex, dynamic and occasionally chaotic systems. Those systems can be influenced and sometimes controlled by various means. And those levers are generally available to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and motivation.

No, the naive position is to assume that the state is on your side because you occasionally gain something from it.

The reasonable position is that the state exists to propagate and protect itself, which is made up of it's citizens, you included. This is just like any organism or organization works.

Like a company, that doesn't mean they will always make decisions that coincide with what you want or what you think is best. But, it DOES mean they have some goal to keep their people, on the whole, happy, because otherwise they no longer exist.

For example, yes the US government sucks in a lot of ways. The US government ALSO wants you to get an education, and they give it away for free. Because more educated people means a stronger economy, which is good for everyone. You might take this for granted, but: there are many countries where the population, as a whole, cannot read or write. Your literacy is the result of hundreds of years of work and has, essentially, been GIVEN to you. That's not something you just have by nature of being human.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#500

Post by nomel »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

You can do this trivially in modern browsers: private browsing.

I have one "normal" browser window for "persistent cookie" use (like gmail, youtube, etc) and another "private" window for everything else. Cookies are lost anytime a tab closes.

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