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To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

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201–210 of 212 posts

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether a bike helmet makes you safer has nothing whatsoever to do with statistics; it is simple physics. You can try it yourself by hitting your head with a rock--with and without the helmet on.

Right, and adding more programmers to a software project will always make it finish earlier (try it yourself by writing a small app with a friend), and flying is always more dangerous than driving (try losing your engines in an airplane and in a car).

No, it really is just simple physics. Arguing this point just makes it look like you don't understand the limitations of epidemiology.

Allow me to illustrate the fallacy with this joke: A man is arrested at the airport because he has a bomb in his backpack. When questioned by police he claims he brought it for safety because "what are the odds that there would be TWO bombs on the same airplane?"

Put another way: you don't need a population study to decide whether feeding rat poison to kids is a good idea.

Now if we were talking about whether mandatory helmet laws make people safer, population statistics are essential tools of policy analysis.

But if we are talking about one single head, we know the helmet increases safety based on the simple rock test I outlined above.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a bell on your cycle helps a lot with this - just give it a ring a few times before overtaking people on a combined cycle/foot path and they will generally (although not always) try and do the sensible thing. In my own experience I was somewhat surprised to find that using a bell actually works a lot better than saying "Excuse me please". Also, some pedestrians will do intentionally stupid things when encounte…

I am generally a pedestrian, and in my experience when I am running on a paved path and cyclists go around me, they sometimes say "on your left" which works pretty well, but bells are great. edit: doh!

> I am generally a pedestrian, and in my experience when I am running on a paved path and cyclists go around me, they sometimes say "on your left" which works pretty well, but bells are great.

As a cyclist, I don't feel like it works very well. About 50% of the time the pedestrian startles and dodges when they hear you say it. In about 50% of those cases, the direction they dodge is to the left. And this is on the bike path where pedestrians are presumably accustomed to and expecting bicycle traffic.

I still do it for the sake of courtesy (and the hope that it will eventually become a common and well-understood practice), but I don't rely on it and give pedestrians as wide a berth as possible as well.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and adding more programmers to a software project will always make it finish earlier (try it yourself by writing a small app with a friend), and flying is always more dangerous than driving (try losing your engines in an airplane and in a car).

No, it really is just simple physics. Arguing this point just makes it look like you don't understand the limitations of epidemiology. Allow me to illustrate the fallacy with this joke: A man is arrested at the airport because he has a bomb in his backpack. When questioned by police he claims he brought it for safety because "what are the odds that there would be TWO bombs on the same airplane?" Put another way: you…

I thought we were talking about the population as a whole, not a single head. Not mandatory laws, but a culture where helmet use is de facto required versus not.

I also recall studies where wearing a helmet was found to be more dangerous overall, for the individual, because drivers assume that helmeted bicyclists are more skilled and don't give them as much room, leading to more accidents.

My point being that you can't simply take a simple "rock + head + helmet = better" and assume that conclusion is correct. This stuff is complicated. And everybody in this thread trying to pretend that this stuff is not complicated is really pissing me off.

Edit: to make sure we're not talking past each other, there are at least five different relevant questions here:

1. If wearing a helmet was required by law, would this be a net gain for society?

2. If wearing a helmet is heavily encouraged by society but legally optional, would this be a net gain?

3. Is wearing a helmet regularly a net gain for the individual?

4. Is wearing a helmet on one particular ride a net gain for the individual?

5. Is wearing a helmet in a crash a net gain for the individual?

The only question answered by your simple physics is #5, which also happens to be the least useful question in the list. Even #5 is not obvious the way you make it sound: it's entirely possible, although probably not actually the case, that the added weight increases the risk of neck trauma more than the protection of the skull reduces the risk of head trauma. In any case, none of the other four questions are answered at all by your thought experiment, even though those four questions are what we should be examining when we ask the question of whether we should wear a helmet while riding, and whether we should encourage or require helmets in general.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#204
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on pretending all of Europe is full of bike lanes? In most inner cities there often isn't room for bike lanes, or the lane is just a line on the asphalt. I bike to work every day in Amsterdam, not a single bike lane on my route, I have to share the road with cars, trams, buses, trucks and scooters. The only traffic that actually poses a regular challenge because of their erratic movements and ten…

I now live in Amsterdam but also used a bike when I lived in the US and the difference is night and day. Sure, the inner part of Amsterdam doesn't have as many bike lanes, mainly because it was designed 500 years ago, but there are always biking lanes around on roads with higher speeds. Even so, I agree that the main difference is that every car takes bikers into account. In the US either people simply don't check th…

>simply not trained . . .

Which is something I've never understood, personally.

Granted I'm a bit more concerned with another car flying through and ripping my door off; but you bet I'm worried about traffic when I open my door.

No matter how you assess the situation, there is no excuse for such carelessness.

Why would anyone risk human lives [possibly your own] and personal property in such a fashion? ---

Based on your time in Amsterdam, would you say drivers there are more _patient_ with cyclists?

I've often held the sentiment that a large number of US accidents are simply a result of impatience. The way people handle switching lanes, controlled intersections, merging, etc. in the US has always seemed rather "selfish" to me.

As an example: it always seems that drivers here in the states, when switching lanes, would rather overtake than undertake, even when undertaking is clearly the safer option (e.g: less traffic behind the car in question, little or no traffic behind you but considerable traffic in front of you).

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#205
while, I totally agree with jdietrich's fact based approach to the discussion, I have ton's of personal experience in the area. Helmets were optional for me growing up, though I often deferred to wear one riding on city streets, racing mountain/XC, riding downhill in Vail and the Olympic Mountains, and riding biketrials extensively. Separately, but also connected had many years of interstate motorcycle riding experience.

I commute by bicycle to work in NYC daily. I feel safer riding here than any other city I have ridden in, because the traffic knows how to deal with bicyclists. (This backs jdietrich's claim that 'more cyclist on the road' == 'safer riding conditions for cyclists in traffic'.) Personally, bicycle dedicated lanes and separate bike lanes, increase my already overwhelming comfort riding in this city, because they eliminate a major variable that is out of my control, being hit from behind.

I have been in dozens of really bad crashes on trails, closed courses and even streets, and only hit my head once. It is my experience that while a helmet won't save you from a car going 50mph, you stand a better chance of surviving when your head makes a 'light tap' on the pavement below you. That one time I hit my head is when I realized the human skull moving at any speed is the equivalent of cantaloupe; soft and rip, waiting to be cracked open to reveal it's juicy insides. From that point forth, I unconditionally wear a helmet. There is no question bicyclist wearing helmets in particular types of collisions will fair better than their helmet-less counter part. Also I have done some really crazy stupid stuff on a bike, but I am not more inclined to do so with a helmet on versus off. In fact, I usually forget I have it on at all. I should add, no amount of safety gear will save you if you or someone else who makes contact with you does something really stupid.

http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm

Also, there is also no question motorcyclists fair better with a helmet.

TL;DR I don't ride more boldly with a helmet on. Helmets are a safer way to ride, and cities with lots of bicyclist are better at dealing with cyclist in traffic.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget to mention that dooring isn't really problem in European cities. Most European cities separate the bike lane from parked cards. For people in bike lanes, that's the main risk that would cause an accident where a helmet would help prevent injury.

It's true. Around Boston, the bike lanes pretty much exactly designate the zone in which you are at risk for dooring.

Same for San Francisco, NYC and pretty much every other city in the US. Only recently has SF begun to plan for the separation of parking and bike lanes. I believe a pretty significant number of bike deaths in NYC last year were attributable to dooring.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#207
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very deceptive description of the pricing. In particular, you can't take a 4 hour ride in Paris for $2 either. A quick glance at the pricing suggests the NY system is about 2-3 times more expensive (presumably because it isn't as heavily subsidized).

You can take a 4 hour ride in Paris for 2$. One day ticket is 1,70 €, first 30 minutes are free, you have to pay if your trip is more than 30 minutes or you can just take another bike for free, that will reset the countdown. Not really handy but most trips are < 30 minutes. By the way the annual fee for unlimited 30 minutes rides is only 29 € Source : velib user here.

But that's how the NYC system is too. You get some low rate for the day and as many 30 minute rides as you want. dbreunig was quoting some ridiculously high number for a 4 hour NYC ride that only applies if you keep the same bike out the whole time.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#208
I have a strong opinion on this issue: I see mandatory helmet laws as an example of democratic discrimination. Helmet legislation is driven and either directly or tacitly supported/ignored by non-cyclist politicians and voters, with little if any polling of cyclist preferences. While mandatory helmet laws are widely disliked by cyclists, their minority position makes resistance difficult. And your average car-driving helmet-law-supporting/ignoring citizen is dismissive of the right to autonomy of cyclists. As a counterexample, there are many things that could be done to improve the safety of cars - helmets, four-point harnesses, backwards-facing seats, engine speed-limiters, alcohol-sensing engine locks, and of course (possible soon) a mandatory full switch to self-driving cars. However, any attempts to introduce such sensible measures will be shot down immediately by a ferocious counter-reaction. The basic logic is that car drivers will not accept intrusive safety measures simply because a) they do not feel or wish to be made to feel unsafe (regardless of statistics) and b) they do not wish to compromise their "feeling of driving." But car drivers are perfectly happy dictating to cyclists that they have no choice in accepting an intrusive safety measure which compromises their "feeling of riding" - anyone who has tried it knows that biking is not biking without the feeling of wind blowing through your hair. It sounds trivial but it makes a massive difference - the typical reaction of car drivers to this point is to snort and say "yeah right" - the hypocrisy is revealed if you make any suggestions about implementing the previous safety measures.

This democratic bullying seems to go hand in hand with a more nasty attitude of drivers to cyclists in general. In my town in New Zealand, if I ride without a helmet for even a short distance I can expect to be verbally abused by car-driving members of the public. In particular, young men will shout random abuse at me - that's not all that bad, the worst is older baby boomer generation men, who will actually slow down beside me and, bristling with anger, yell at me asking where my helmet is. These reactions confuse me. I do not roam around on my bike looking for drivers not wearing seatbelts and try and ride up to them and hammer their windows and yell abuse. Even if this was possible, I wouldn't have any interest in doing so. If you want to wear a seatbelt or not is up to you. You can do so with full knowledge of the risks of a police fine or injury in an accident if you wish. Similarly, why should drivers feel upset and compelled to accost me if I choose not to wear a helmet? I do so in the full knowledge of the risk of a police fine and an injury in an accident. That is my business, so why do they feel the need to confront me? And why do my personal choices seem to make them so angry?

The answer is simple. Our road culture is aggressive, impatient and me vs. them. I am sure the drivers in my town are by no means the worst in the world, but still, there is an atmosphere of confrontation that permeates driving here. People are in a hurry to get where they are going, and everyone else on the roads is an enemy. Unsurprisingly men are the worst offenders. And cyclists are the easiest targets: fragile, wobbly, slow, unable to protect themselves, uninsulated from abuse, unable to outmaneuever or escape an angry car-driver, above all out of place, they become a focal point, the easy targets, for all the aggression of an aggressive road culture. The helmet law is in my mind just a manifestation of this power-imbalance and a focus for the tension it generates. It does not surprise me that most helmet laws seem to have arisen as urbanisation and car use and speeds intensified, i.e. as the dominance of a break-neck pace car culture became cemented. Instead of trying to soften road culture and build cities which work for all different modes of transport, we have a helmet law and some glass and gravel-strewn cycleways wedged between parked cars and roaring traffic flows. How anyone would feel comfortable and happy cycling in this environment is anyone's guess, but what is for sure is that the helmet law at best accomplishes little to nothing and at worst is a dangerous red herring, distracting energy and attention from addressing much harder and more critical problems of culture and infrastructure.

I have nothing against helmets as safety devices and I think they should be worn. However I think making it a law, and making adult cyclists who wish to ride bare-headed the free subject of assault from members of the public (not to mention the police) accomplishes nothing more than aggravating a combative cyclists vs car-driver culture.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#209
post #32
post #6

What's so wrong with helmets?

I have a bike helmet but only wear it for some rides - i.e. the long-distance or fast ones. When I ride into town for shopping, I don't wear it. I hope it will always remain my personal choice. Anyway, the arguments are: a) Mandatory bike helmets mean you can't run a bike-share scheme because who wants to wear a much-used sweaty helmet? How can the people running the scheme sanitise them? b) Mandatory bike helmets pu…

+1 for "assertive riding" and "taking the lane when necessary"

Cyclists need to be assertive, ride a safe distance away from parked cars and the kerb (so you can't be doored or have pedestrians step out in front of you), and generally expect drivers NOT to see you, and take avoiding action just in case.

Sure, riding in the middle of the lane when necessary will annoy car drivers, but it will force them to see you and keep you safer.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#210

There is no evidence that segregated cycle facilities improve cyclist safety. The majority of serious bicycle accidents are right-of-way disputes, occurring at junctions. It is just as likely that segregated facilities could increase the number of accidents, by making the movements of cyclists less predictable to motorists when they merge onto general roads. It is known that sidewalk cyclists are significantly more v…

> The best available evidence shows that one factor completely overwhelms all others - the number of cyclists on the road. [...] Motorists cannot be blamed for struggling to predict the movements of a type of vehicle which they encounter rarely and do not understand.

The reason for increased safety may have less to do with better prediction and more to do with the fact that the motorized traffic speed slows to slowest cyclist speed as the number of cyclists increases. There is no way to go fast if there is a cyclist every 100ft in the same lane as the cars.

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