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To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

nytimes.com

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Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#131

Post by malandrew »

mikeryan wrote: post #8

This article is great but it does itself a pretty big disservice by pretty much ignoring a lot of why many of the European cities which have successful programs are successful. Namely they have made significant investment into infrastructure to make bicycling safer, many times prioritizing bike traffic over auto traffic. I ride quite a bit, live in Berkeley which has numerous "Bicycle Boulevards [1]" and I'm pretty c…

Don't forget to mention that dooring isn't really problem in European cities. Most European cities separate the bike lane from parked cards. For people in bike lanes, that's the main risk that would cause an accident where a helmet would help prevent injury.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#132

Post by qu4z-2 »

zobzu wrote: post #22
cshesse wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can solve this with a bulleted list: * Scare people off from using bikes * Uncomfortable * Supply excuse to not make biking safer * Expensive * Don't actually make you any safer

That's not exactly a very good list. Here's what i think is a better one: - doesn't look cool - slightly less comfortable - one more thing to think about and carry along when you go for a ride On the plus side: - does actually make you safer - its cheap unless you need a super competition-brand-etc (then you've a different issue) - its light - when everybody wears it you don't have to feel like you're the only clown…

I don't think cheap and light are fair points there. Sure, it could be worse, but no helmet is definitely cheaper and lighter than a helmet. (aside from possible medical bills, but I feel that's covered under the 'keeps you safe' point).

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#133

Post by sopooneo »

malandrew wrote: post #131
mikeryan wrote: post #8

This article is great but it does itself a pretty big disservice by pretty much ignoring a lot of why many of the European cities which have successful programs are successful. Namely they have made significant investment into infrastructure to make bicycling safer, many times prioritizing bike traffic over auto traffic. I ride quite a bit, live in Berkeley which has numerous "Bicycle Boulevards [1]" and I'm pretty c…

Don't forget to mention that dooring isn't really problem in European cities. Most European cities separate the bike lane from parked cards. For people in bike lanes, that's the main risk that would cause an accident where a helmet would help prevent injury.

It's true. Around Boston, the bike lanes pretty much exactly designate the zone in which you are at risk for dooring.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#134

Post by tzs »

gosu wrote: post #114
tzs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually some organized opposition to bike lanes in the US, from some of the more conspiracy theory oriented members of the Tea Party and the Libertarians. They think bike lanes are part of the UN's "Agenda 21", which they see as a nefarious plot to take away our sovereignty. Bike lanes, for example, according to these people encourage people to bike more, which encourages higher density cities (as people wan…

To be fair, what you've just proposed is also a conspiracy theory.

How so?

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#135

Post by jchrisa »

_delirium wrote: post #70
rickmb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on pretending all of Europe is full of bike lanes? In most inner cities there often isn't room for bike lanes, or the lane is just a line on the asphalt. I bike to work every day in Amsterdam, not a single bike lane on my route, I have to share the road with cars, trams, buses, trucks and scooters. The only traffic that actually poses a regular challenge because of their erratic movements and ten…

I wouldn't say they're widespread in Europe, but I moved from the SF Bay Area to Copenhagen, and they're certainly a big factor here. The "bicycle highways", completely separated and wide lanes that form major arteries through the city, make it much easier to bike to work from most places, without danger of car interference, or of being "doored" by parked cars opening their doors. Some other efforts: 1) the traffic l…

I'm vacationing in Copenhagen next week, drawn largely because it's one of the few places I've been that has anything approaching sane transportation. I'd love to get together with fellow hackers (I'm speaking at CopenhagenJS) on the 11th). I couldn't find your contact info. If you see this comment plz email me at jchris@couchbase.com thanks!

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#136

Post by scotty79 »

rickmb wrote: post #64
mikeryan wrote: post #8

This article is great but it does itself a pretty big disservice by pretty much ignoring a lot of why many of the European cities which have successful programs are successful. Namely they have made significant investment into infrastructure to make bicycling safer, many times prioritizing bike traffic over auto traffic. I ride quite a bit, live in Berkeley which has numerous "Bicycle Boulevards [1]" and I'm pretty c…

Why do people insist on pretending all of Europe is full of bike lanes? In most inner cities there often isn't room for bike lanes, or the lane is just a line on the asphalt. I bike to work every day in Amsterdam, not a single bike lane on my route, I have to share the road with cars, trams, buses, trucks and scooters. The only traffic that actually poses a regular challenge because of their erratic movements and ten…

I don't think it's limited to American tourists.

When I visited Amsterdam I had to take few days to adjust to the fact that as a pedestrian you have to be pretty much aware what's happening at nearly 360 deg around you when you try to cross any sort of curb.

In my home country it's usually sufficient to make sure nothing is coming from the left to not be in any immediate danger.

After those few days of adjustment I found Amsterdam to be amazing place.

There was no other place in the world where I felt that the city treats me like a real adult perfectly capable of taking care of my own safety.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#138

Post by scotty79 »

dialtone wrote: post #99
scoot wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only traffic that actually poses a regular challenge because of their erratic movements and tendency to step into the road without looking are American tourists on foot... Was that really necessary? The racial stereotype detracts from your your argument, and frankly, one erratic pedestrian looks the same as another to a fast moving cyclist, much as one erratic cyclist looks the same as another to a driver.

Maybe it's a stereotype and it definitely doesn't apply to everyone but I've never seen so much confusion as on american roads. I'm from Italy and we're routinely made fun of for the mess that is our traffic, the reality though is that in Italy it is way more predictable and correct, blinkers are always used for example, than in SF where I've lived for the past 5 years. Italy has very few miles of bicycle lanes and y…

I've been to Florence for 6 months and traffic there is much more chaotic that what I'm used to at home (Poland). But it's also much safer. People rarely use turn signals (except buses and taxis) but that just makes everybody really observe what the other drivers are doing. Generally divers seem to really pay attention more to what's around them and adjust their behavior.

Another amazing things are bicycles and scooters navigating through narrow streets filled with pedestrians apparently totally safely and without being cursed at.

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#139

Post by microtonal »

tripzilch wrote: post #89
rickmb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on pretending all of Europe is full of bike lanes? In most inner cities there often isn't room for bike lanes, or the lane is just a line on the asphalt. I bike to work every day in Amsterdam, not a single bike lane on my route, I have to share the road with cars, trams, buses, trucks and scooters. The only traffic that actually poses a regular challenge because of their erratic movements and ten…

> I bike to work every day in Amsterdam, not a single bike lane on my route Really? I don't visit Amsterdam that often, but the rest of NL really is full of bike lanes. I agree with the GP post: in order to safely bike around without helmet, you need infrastructure that takes bikes into account. Also, traffic that expects bikes. And maybe your particular work-route does not have bike lanes, but the road designs do ta…

Really? I don't visit Amsterdam that often, but the rest of NL really is full of bike lanes.

Agreed. I live in Groningen 4/5 of my way to work I use bike lines, the other 1/5th is the car-free center (though there are busses).

Re: To Encourage Biking, Cities Lose the Helmets

#140

Post by microtonal »

rayiner wrote: post #17
cshesse wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can solve this with a bulleted list: * Scare people off from using bikes * Uncomfortable * Supply excuse to not make biking safer * Expensive * Don't actually make you any safer

The first point just begs the question. The third one is questionable at best. The last two are just incorrect. I think the "no helmet" thing is just a weird bit of biker culture that's going to eventually die out, much like smoker culture is dying out in the US.

It's not going to happen in Western Europe, because it is not really necessary. Most of my family and friends have used bikes nearly daily since they were three or four years old. I know of no-one who had a head injury.

Biking without helmet is perfectly safe here (Netherlands), because of traffic laws and bike lanes.

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