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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#351

Post by vkou »

arbol wrote: post #162
vkou wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither are the billionaires and their deputies who both own and run all the megacorps. 99% of the current AI push is entirely anti-hacker ethos . It is a race to consolidate control of the world's computing and its economic surplus to ~5 organizations. A few people do interesting stuff on the edges of this, but the rest of the work in it is anathema to hacker values.

The client ai push has also enabled people to run local llama models and build products without those companies. Presumably there'll be more of this to come

That's the 1%. It's the hair on the back of the elephant.

Their capabilities will fall further and further behind models that need a billion dollars to train, and a supercomputer to run. You're making a faustian bargain.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#352

Post by trinsic2 »

jonesjohnson wrote: post #55
surgical_fire wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in EU. I am totally in support to force Meta down through government's big stick. While they are at it, I hope they do it to the other big techs too. Being a "hacker type" (whatever that means) does not equate to being complacent to these companies abusing their economic power.

Then I propose you should support https://noyb.eu/ Their track record is pretty good.

Do we have anything like this in the U.S.?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#353

Post by recursive »

lenerdenator wrote: post #274
recursive wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Not Track was a spectacular failure. You can still turn cookies off in your user agent though.

It was a spectacular failure because the people who thought of it didn't stick to it.

I don't think so. It was conceived on the user agent side AFAIK. The publishers decided not to honor it. At that point, there's not much point to keeping it on the UA side.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#354

Post by bryanrasmussen »

Fargren wrote: post #305
betaby wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cookie thing should a browser's default.

That would be fine, if there was a law that forced every browser to have this setting and every company to respect the setting.

arguably if there was a browser setting for this the current GDPR would require you to respect that setting. But that's arguably, it would still need to adjudicated.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#355

Post by troupo »

pembrook wrote: post #296
MangoToupe wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't see the issue. The GDPR isn't exactly difficult to comply with, nor does it hamper any of the clear successes of the last 25 years outside of the ad industry. What's the benefit of backing out on it? Is this just an effort to make a homegrown surveillance network?

Ughhh here we go again. Every time GDPR is brought up on HN, the same "it's super simple to comply, just read it yourself!" religious incantation gets repeated ad-nauseam. I think it's because people love the idea of what they think GDPR actually represents (the fuzzy abstract idea of "privacy"), without ever diving into any of the implementation details. Almost nobody on this forum has ever talked to a lawyer about…

> but will continue to go back and forth if GDPR remains as-is.

Yes, it should remain as is and enforced. Yes, storing your users' data in the US is extremely problematic because the US really couldn't give two shits about privacy, or user data.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#356

Post by troupo »

jedberg wrote: post #264
MangoToupe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation isn't worth it for innovation's sake, though. Europe could easily profit watching others innovate and taking what makes sense for europe. I don't see anything about GDPR that would harm innovation or long-term success for europe.

> I don't see anything about GDPR that would harm innovation or long-term success for europe. It's the same thing as any other regulation -- regulatory burden. Laws aren't code, they need interpretation. That means you need your own lawyer to tell you an interpretation that they feel they can defend in front of a judge. There is a cost to that. In both time and money. I am the CEO of a startup who is subject to GDPR.…

> The amount of time and money we've spent just making sure we are in compliance is quite high, and we barely operate in Europe and don't collect PII.

So either you're lying or your lawyers are lying to you.

In 9 years you could've finally read and understood the rather small law yourself.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#357

Post by nofriend »

radicalbyte wrote: post #35
bitpush wrote: post #16

Incredible to see the 180 both from EU and also from the HN sentiment. HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies, especially Meta. Meta is no perfect company, but the amount of 'please stick it to them' was strong (I reckon that is still a bridge too far for a lot of folks here). Even extreme proponents of big tech villanery in the US (Lina Khan's FTC) is also facing losses (They just lost their monument…

There has been a change in the community here over the last decade, we've lost a lot of the hacker spirit and have a larger proportion of "chancers", people who are only in tech to "get rich quick". The legacy of ZIRP combined with The Social Network marketing.

This is such a laughable comment. Being in favour of a regulation - any regulation - is not part of the "hacker spirit". A hacker qua a hacker is interested in a regulation insofar as they can work around it, or exploit it to their ends, not to put one in place to directly achieve something. That's not to say all regulations are bad, or even that the GDPR is, just that HN being for or against it isn't proof of some demographic shift.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#359

Post by croes »

nonethewiser wrote: post #204
croes wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t track your site visitors. No tracking, no banner. Or respect the now deprecated DNT flag, no banner necessary. Now we get DNT 2.0 and the website owner will once again maliciously comply.

OK sounds great. But some companies prefer to have trackers. They are required by GDPR to explain each cookie and offer a control for permissions. They probably had trackers before GDPR too. So how is that malicious compliance? They are just operating how they did before except now they are observing GDPR. It sounds like maybe you just want them to ban trackers. Or for people to care more about trackers and stop usin…

Malicious compliance are those dark patterns where it takes on click to accept all but multiple clicks to reject all.

I remember the early day cookie banners of Tumbler accept all or deselect 200 tracking cookies by clicking each checkbox.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#360

Post by mlyle »

a4isms wrote: post #322
mlyle wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, compliance itself is costly, but the cost is stuff that society decided it wanted to spend money on. But uncertainty in compliance and time spent navigating compliance is nearly pure waste.

To continue a conversation from another thread on another post, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity, and out-of-band context required are all costs that just happen to act as moats for entrenched incumbents. And no surprise, such incumbents often have so much influence over politics that they literally write the laws that regulate them. The folksy aphorism goes, The more wild cards and crazy rules, the greater the exp…

Yes-- I think most of us are familiar with regulatory capture. But the solution to regulatory capture isn't "no regulation."
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