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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#241

Post by MangoToupe »

graemep wrote: post #224
danishSuri1994 wrote: post #110

I sympathize with the startup argument: heavy compliance costs can stifle early innovation. But the solution shouldn’t be “weaker rules.” It should be smarter rules, clearer safe harbors for small actors, browser-level consent primitives for users, and stronger enforcement against dark-pattern CMPs. That keeps privacy meaningful without killing small businesses.

I always felt applying the same rules to everyone was a big problem with GDPR. Not just small business, but even non-profits that just keep a list of people involved with them are subject to the same rules, even if they only use the information internally and do not buy or sell any personal information. Its not just cookies and websites, its any personal information stored electronically.

I just don't see the issue. The GDPR isn't exactly difficult to comply with, nor does it hamper any of the clear successes of the last 25 years outside of the ad industry. What's the benefit of backing out on it? Is this just an effort to make a homegrown surveillance network?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#242

Post by graemep »

rebolek wrote: post #101
jonesjohnson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the issue was never the law. the issue were the 100s of tracking cookies and that websites would use dark patterns or simply not offer a "no to all" button at all (which is against the law, btw.) Most websites do. not. need. cookies. It's all about tracking and surveillance to show you different prices on airbnb and booking.com to maximise their profits. https://noyb.eu/en/project/cookie-banners (edit: link)

I think that most websites need cookies. I have a website with short stories. It lets you set font size and dark/bright theme, nothing special. Do I want to store your settings on server? No, why should I waste my resources? Just store it in your browser! Cookies are perfect for that. Do I know your settings? No, I don't, I don't care. I set a cookie, JS reads it and changes something on client. No tracking at all. C…

> lets you set font size and dark/bright theme,

You do not need cookies for either of these. CSS can follow browser preferences, and browsers can change font sizes with zoom.

I am not sure these cookies are covered by the regulations. No personal so not covered by GDPR. They might be covered by the ePrivacy directive (the "cookie law").

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#243

Post by zrn900 »

While they are at it, the EU should also correct another sh*tty law: The Digital 'Resilience' Act (or whatever it was) that holds the Open Source developers responsible for unlimited fines for security issues in their projects.

The Open Source community fought it, and thought that it won a concession, but it really was not a concession: The Eu commission will 'interpret' the law. So it will be interpreted politically - or worse, lobby-driven - with every other Eu commission that takes office.

The law does not allow you to make any kind of income from your open source project in ANY way, and basically forces you to be free labor for megacorps. Charging for support? Responsible for fines that can go up to millions of Euros. Charging for 'downloads'. Same. Licenses? Same.

It looks like this was another law pushed by Eu big software lobbies: Cripple any small player that may be a competitor by building a moat against small players and those pesky Open Source startups that may challenge your online service, but still keep Open Source developers as the free labor for your company's infrastructure.

The tech legislation landscape in the Eu has been co-opted by Eu megacorps. Like I said in another comment, we arent in the early days of the Pirate Party anymore. Now career politicians and sold-out lobbyists make laws to protect megacorps. Therefore Im against any new tech legislation from the Eu, despite having been an early Pirate Party advocate back when even using the word 'pirate' put you in legal trouble.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#244

Post by [deleted] »

bitpush wrote: post #236
microtonal wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I really want to see is Meta getting irrelevant ON MERIT. People stop using Meta products, and then I want to see it die. The problem is that with a nearly infinite amount of money, you are not going to get irrelevant on merit. You just buy up any company/talent that becomes a threat. They have done that with Instagram and WhatsApp (which was and is really huge in Europe etc.).

Didnt the judge rule literally yesterday that this wasnt illegal. This was one of Lina Khan's signature lawsuits, and judge didnt agree even a single one of FTC's arguments.

[deleted]

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#245

Post by dlcarrier »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #89
bitpush wrote: post #16

Incredible to see the 180 both from EU and also from the HN sentiment. HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies, especially Meta. Meta is no perfect company, but the amount of 'please stick it to them' was strong (I reckon that is still a bridge too far for a lot of folks here). Even extreme proponents of big tech villanery in the US (Lina Khan's FTC) is also facing losses (They just lost their monument…

> HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies HN is not a hive mind or a monoculture. Every time the EU goes after some company, some people always cheer, some people always boo, and some people will cheer some and boo others based on the impact/nuance of the particular policy or company.

On top of that, one thing that always gets support is complaining about the status quo, and those comments have been the most upvoted, on either side of the debate

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#246

Post by nonethewiser »

vouwfietsman wrote: post #234
nonethewiser wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you comply with the current requirements without cookie banners? Why would EU governments use cookie banners if they are just nonsense meant to degrade approval of GDPR?

> Why would EU governments use cookie banners They generally don't, because you don't need banners to store cookies that you need to store to have a working site . In other words, if you see cookie banner, somebody is asking to store/track stuff about you that's not really needed . Cookie banners were invented by the market as a loophole to continue dark patterns and bad practices. EU is catching flak because its ext…

In terms of whether or not the ubiquity of cookie banners is malicious compliance or if it was an inevitable consequence of GDPR, it doesnt matter if trackers are good or necessary. GDPR doesn't ban them. So having them and getting consent is just a normal consequence.

We can say, "Wouldn't it have been nice if the bad UX of all these cookies organically led to the death of trackers," but it didn't. And now proponents of GDPR are blaming companies for following GDPR. This comes from confusing the actual law with a desired side effect that didn't materialize.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#247

Post by pseudalopex »

nonethewiser wrote: post #191
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not putting a billion trackers on your site and also by not using dark patterns. The idea was a simple yes or no. It became: "yes or click through these 1000 trackers" or "yes or pay". The problem is that it became normal to just collect and hoard data about everyone.

Again, then why does the EU do this? Clearly its not simply about erroding confidence in GDPR if the EU is literally doing it themselves. Besides, you seem to be confusing something. GDPR requires explicit explanation of each cookie, including these 1000s of trackers. It in no way bans these. This is just GDPR working as intended - some people want to have 1000s of trackers and GDPR makes them explain each one with a…

> Besides, you seem to be confusing something.

No. You asked How can you comply with the current requirements without cookie banners? Not How can you have trackers and comply with the current requirements without cookie banners? And don't use dark patterns would have answered this question as well.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#248

Post by aylmao »

bitpush wrote: post #170
pipes wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last few years I think sentiment on hacker news has shifted from libertarian leaning to much mored left leaning. The same happened on Reddit a few years before. Anyway, just my gut feeling, nothing scientific.

Keen observation both you and OP. We've gone from a sense of techno optimism to tech blaming. Valid criticism is OK (I stand by crypto being a scam) but bring up any topic that is neutral to popular(VR, Autonomous Driving, LLM) and people are first to be luddites come out.

> We've gone from a sense of techno optimism to tech blaming.

IMO this is simply because the tech industry isn't what it was 20+ years ago. We didn't have the monopolistic mammoths we have today, such ruthless focus on profiteering, or key figures so disconnected from the layperson.

People hated on Microsoft and they were taken to court for practices that nowadays seem to be commonplace with any of the other big tech companies. A future where everyone has a personal computer was exciting and seemed strictly beneficial; but with time these "futures" the tech industry wants us to imagine have just gotten either less credible, or more dystopic.

A future where everyone is on Facebook for example sounds dystopic, knowing the power that lays on personal data collection, the company's track record, or just what the product actually gives us: an endless feed of low-quality content. Even things that don't seem dystopic like VR seem kinda unnecessary when compared to the very tanginble benefit the personal computer or the internet brought about.

There are more tangible reasons to not be optimistic nowadays.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#249

Post by graemep »

MangoToupe wrote: post #241
graemep wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always felt applying the same rules to everyone was a big problem with GDPR. Not just small business, but even non-profits that just keep a list of people involved with them are subject to the same rules, even if they only use the information internally and do not buy or sell any personal information. Its not just cookies and websites, its any personal information stored electronically.

I just don't see the issue. The GDPR isn't exactly difficult to comply with, nor does it hamper any of the clear successes of the last 25 years outside of the ad industry. What's the benefit of backing out on it? Is this just an effort to make a homegrown surveillance network?

I am not saying privacy laws should be repealed (if you look at my other comments, quite the opposite).

I am saying that the same regulations are both too easy for big business to evade (or ignore and treat fines as a cost of doing business) AND too burdensome on small organisations that do not trade information. Something as simple as a membership list can draw you in.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#250

Post by xvector »

bitpush wrote: post #236
microtonal wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I really want to see is Meta getting irrelevant ON MERIT. People stop using Meta products, and then I want to see it die. The problem is that with a nearly infinite amount of money, you are not going to get irrelevant on merit. You just buy up any company/talent that becomes a threat. They have done that with Instagram and WhatsApp (which was and is really huge in Europe etc.).

Didnt the judge rule literally yesterday that this wasnt illegal. This was one of Lina Khan's signature lawsuits, and judge didnt agree even a single one of FTC's arguments.

Where can I read more about this? Quick search turns up nothing for me
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