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Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

angadh.com

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Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's true, in much the same way that chemotherapy treats the symptom of cells spontaneously deciding to replicate in your body. That does not mean we judge people battling a cancer diagnosis and tell them to pursue non-medicated approaches because it's "just treating symptoms". If you encounter a bit of bitterness from the ADHD community online, let me provide some perspective: I have been called lazy my…

i understand your perspective viscerally and as such i understand the push back ... the argument is that there is nothing wrong with someone labelled 'adhd' , rather that the modern western system both a) does not handle adhd behaviour properly and b) exhibits conditions where non-adhd individuals exhibit adhd behaviour ... when taking into account that speed will motivate anybody (both adhd and non adhd) , and that…

Even if you were 100% correct and the world is broken, fully causing ADHD as a disorder: Please fix the world FIRST and only once proven ADHD is caused by what once was the shape of western society and no longer applies, THEN you get to take the metaphorical wheelchair away.

The alternative is that you prevent millions of people in managing their disability while asking them to bet on your view of the world AND on our collective ability to change it. In the best case scenario where we manage that shift, that's what, 10 years of my life gone while society adjusts? Will you write my kids a nice letter explaining them their dad is going to be a deadbeat the next 10 years while we fix society, because somebody on the internet thinks daddy shouldn't be on stimulant medication?

You're just not presenting an attractive deal to anyone, whilst very politely telling disabled people making the best of their shit situation that their crutches should not exist. Hell, maybe they shouldn't need to exist, but how is that my fault? And while I can't tell if you stand on the side of 'using meds to manage ADHD is a failure of self discipline and morality', but if you do: I promise you most people with ADHD have more self discipline in their little toe than others do in their entire body. But self discipline doesn't make a cripple walk, as much as it doesn't make my brain make the chemicals I need to put my body into action. I've spent enough time of my life flogging myself into action, believing I was a fundamentally lazy human, I'll take the meds.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#122

amphetamines feel a lot like people putting NO2 on their cars, or overclocking their computers. You might just fine in the end, but the likelihood of wear & tear catching up to you increases. It should be treated just like any other medicine, don't use it unless you really have to, and expect adverse effect (known or unknown).

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Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#123

amphetamines feel a lot like people putting NO2 on their cars, or overclocking their computers. You might just fine in the end, but the likelihood of wear & tear catching up to you increases. It should be treated just like any other medicine, don't use it unless you really have to, and expect adverse effect (known or unknown).

Amphetamines are safe, well-studied and non-addictive at prescribed doses. On the other hand, untreated ADHD VASTLY increases likelihood of addiction and many mental disorders.

Definitely DO use this medication if you need it - it's the first medication your doctor will likely ask you to try precisely because an extensive body of research says it's the most effective way for treating ADHD.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#124
post #25
post #10

This article (and the title alone) is harmful. Adderall is not about increasing mental efficiency . What Adderall is about is: - helping with executive dysfunction for people who suffer from it. - allowing people with ADHD like me to function . To do the things that everyone else does, things that we want to do and need to do, but can't do because of the way our brains are wired. - increasing the lifespan of ADHD peo…

The author of this piece—which I am—is reporting on Huxley’s MIT talk. He predicted a drug that improves mental efficiency/focus. And the talk discusses alternative non-pharmacological approaches. You are welcome to either actually read my piece or, better, listen to his talk. There is no judgment against the substance but a call for additional approaches to enhance a person.

You are contributing to the stigma associated with ADHD medication, and you should feel bad about that.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#125
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two, but those are just the enantiomers dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine. Neither has any atoms extra or missing. It looks like four amphetamines because those two cationic isomers are in salts with two different anions.

Each enantiomer exhibits different effects so I don't know if that is relevant. (Even if you count dextroamphetamine sulfate and amphetamine sulfate as one, I'd still probably call it 3 because dextroamphetamine saccharate and amphetamine asparate monohydrate (the other two parts of adderall) do indeed have different forumlas).

If you synthesize amphetamine through the usual pathways, as I understand it, you get a racemic mixture, which is what is normally meant by unqualified "amphetamine", and is very close to Adderall. It's true that levoamphetamine is not really active at all in this context.

As I understand it, the aspartate and saccharate still dissociate in solution. If so, there isn't much of a plausible reason to consider them different drugs. If not, they might act more slowly or not at all.

None of this puts Adderall in the class of substituted amphetamines like MDMA or Desoxyn or exotics like ALEPH: https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal003...

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behavioral therapy is only needed to make people feel better about taking amphetamines. It takes only a very cursory review of published reputable papers to realize there's nothing behavioral therapy can do to improve ADHD because as Russell Barkley says ADHD is a disability of doing, not knowing what to do.

If medication alone has worked for you, that's great! But I don't think your opinion matches the medical consensus. > For children with ADHD younger than 6 years of age, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends parent training in behavior management as the first line of treatment, before medication is tried. > For children 6 years of age and older, the recommendations include medication and behavior therap…

This makes sense for very young children, for various reasons, mainly that it’s hard or impossible to diagnose ADHD with reliability at such a young age, and because medication is hard to dose properly to a rapidly growing child. But these recommendations are honestly more about helping the parents cope than about treating the child’s ADHD. Behavioral therapy is more about learning how to fit in than addressing the actual problems (which are often exacerbated by the inevitable failure of such behavioral treatment and its corresponding expectations in folks with genuine ADHD).

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the whole point of amphetamine based treatement for ADHD to correct(or beneficially alter, depending on your point of view) an non-standard brain chemistry? AFAIK some neurodivergent brains deal with amphetamines differently and the baseline levels of chemical affected by amphetamines is different. Wear and tear might be a thing, i don't know, but the analogy of putting NO2 in their car feels a bit off. It'd be…

I believe parent commenter was referring to recreational use, i.e., use by people without such diagnoses who want a "performance boost". I heard about that sort of thing being popular when I was in college — people would take Adderall to cram for an exam or to study late into the night. You're right that, for people with ADHD and related disorders, stimulant medication sort of just adjusts their baselines so they can…

> You're right that, for people with ADHD and related disorders, stimulant medication sort of just adjusts their baselines so they can pay attention like a "normal" person.

I have ADHD and take metylphenidate(I've tried many kinds of stimulants as well) -- and the NO2 analogy is an imperfect but better analogy than saying stimulants simply adjusts the baseline of people with ADHD to function like "normal" persons.

I feel there is a narrow window of dosage and time where it might feel that way -- i.e. stimulants at the onset might calm you down, reduce anxiety, but all stimulants are very broad hammers.

For me it feels like it's impossible to re-create chemically exactly the neurotypical focus that I've seen in other colleagues.

Like spending 5-6 hours of continous work where you drill down just enough, get back on track, don't get distracted, don't get too anxious, don't get hyperfocused AND do that consistently, day after day after day.

My non-chemical modes are either hyper focus for 2 weeks on a problem, immerse myself but then completely lose interest, most of the time without showing much for it OR procastinate it a long way, get extremely anxious and work really hard on the problem.

With stimulants it's a bit like: - dosed just right:it evaporates anxiety, stressful situations feel easy to deal with, BUT there's always increased heart rate, grinding teeth and some tension at the end of the day - some stimulants make mundane things wildly interesting (on isopropylphenidate I spent a few hours playing with a PLSQL debugger because I thought it was really cool), but no sense of "GO, GO, GO, do it". - some make things seem urgent enough and help stay on track -- like the metylphenidate I'm prescribed. - some make going into a flow-like state easy and fun (like methamphetamine and phenmetrazine). - some are pure energy and urgency -- like modafinil.

All of the stimulants have the potential to give me euphoria, all of them temporarily increase libido I still have to be mindful of not focusing on the wrong thing, the "normal" feeling is very fleeting, it's very easy to get hyper on stimulants, all of them feel like wear & tear at the end of the day, some more than others.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#128

amphetamines feel a lot like people putting NO2 on their cars, or overclocking their computers. You might just fine in the end, but the likelihood of wear & tear catching up to you increases. It should be treated just like any other medicine, don't use it unless you really have to, and expect adverse effect (known or unknown).

Amphetamines are safe, well-studied and non-addictive at prescribed doses. On the other hand, untreated ADHD VASTLY increases likelihood of addiction and many mental disorders. Definitely DO use this medication if you need it - it's the first medication your doctor will likely ask you to try precisely because an extensive body of research says it's the most effective way for treating ADHD.

The "if you need it" is important.

1. People take it as a study drug, without prescription.

2. There may be over medication. Doctors will sometimes feel pushed to prescribe (as is known to happen with antibiotics)

3. At an individual level that is true, but you may need it because of your society and environment. Both ADHD rates and treatment varies between countries (even between regions and states within countries) and has varied a lot over time, which implies some external factor affects it.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#129
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therapy, and most of all, understanding how our brains work make all the difference in the world. It's like realizing that the reason you've been getting stuck in the mud is not that you're a bad driver. It's just that people who don't are driving 4x4 trucks, and you've had a Nissan Z series sports car. Turns out, farms and off-road are simply not the right environment for your vehicle, and when that environment has…

I'm sorry but therapy does NOTHING for ADHD. I wish it did, it would be very useful to me, but it's just not the case.

There may be multiple types of “therapy” being mixed up here. I think it’s important to accept that therapy is never going to “fix” the differences in brain function that folks with ADHD experience. Any attempt at behavioral therapy to “fix” an ADHD brain will fail.

But talk therapy can help some folks come to accept the differences that their ADHD means in terms of how to relate to other people or to better understand why how ADHD impacts their own behavior and self-perception.

I myself have found it’s much easier and happier to shape my life around my particular ADHD than trying to change my behavior (something that’s destined to fail and only compound the negative emotions associated with ADHD).

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#130
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behavioral therapy is only needed to make people feel better about taking amphetamines. It takes only a very cursory review of published reputable papers to realize there's nothing behavioral therapy can do to improve ADHD because as Russell Barkley says ADHD is a disability of doing, not knowing what to do.

Not true. CBT works pretty well for adhd, studies are clear on this. But medication seems even better, as does a combination of therapy and medication. ADHD isn't unusual as far as the effectiveness of therapy, it's unusual in how well the medication is proven to work.

> CBT works pretty well for adhd.

I want to share my counter example -- no amount of therapy could help me not almost loose it every time I drove my daughter in heavy traffic or deal with her just being a toddler.

But after 2 weeks being on concerta made lasting changes even months off the drug.

It was the best type o therapy -- you just do the thing that triggers you minus the bad part and learn it's not so bad and you can do it, it has profound implications.

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