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Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

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Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#71

Post by freetime2 »

luckydata wrote: post #67
freetime2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's long, but I listened to this podcast a while back with Peter Attia and Trenna Sutcliffe discussing Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety, and found that it really reduced the stigma I associated with medication for treatment of ADHD. In particular, understanding the risks of not effectively treating ADHD, in comparison with with the potential risks/benefits of the medication. That's not to say that we should only rely on me…

Behavioral therapy is only needed to make people feel better about taking amphetamines. It takes only a very cursory review of published reputable papers to realize there's nothing behavioral therapy can do to improve ADHD because as Russell Barkley says ADHD is a disability of doing, not knowing what to do.

If medication alone has worked for you, that's great! But I don't think your opinion matches the medical consensus.

> For children with ADHD younger than 6 years of age, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends parent training in behavior management as the first line of treatment, before medication is tried.

> For children 6 years of age and older, the recommendations include medication and behavior therapy together—parent training in behavior management for children up to age 12 and other types of behavior therapy and training for adolescents. Schools can be part of the treatment as well. AAP recommendations also include adding behavioral classroom intervention and school supports. [1]

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/treatment/index.html

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#72

Post by kbos87 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #45
freetime2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's long, but I listened to this podcast a while back with Peter Attia and Trenna Sutcliffe discussing Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety, and found that it really reduced the stigma I associated with medication for treatment of ADHD. In particular, understanding the risks of not effectively treating ADHD, in comparison with with the potential risks/benefits of the medication. That's not to say that we should only rely on me…

You could draw a parallel with GLP-1 agonists: people like to grandstand about how you shouldn't need it and how it's somehow cheating. As if it's not addressing a condition that people are suffering from right now, today. The stigma also seems to accidentally admit that things like executive function and food noise aren't equally distributed, thus some people could benefit from intervention. For example, if you've n…

This is an excellent parallel.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#73

Post by alterom »

Aeglaecia wrote: post #70
alterom wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd argue that it is nonsense to treat symptoms instead of the cause (of an issue) , but actually doing just that is quite intellectual when a bunch of money stands to be made What specifically are you talking about here? It appears to me that your comment is an expression of vibe with zero information content. There's no dichotomy between treating symptoms and cause even when the cause is treatable (which isn't the…

[flagged]

So, instead of reading what I wrote, you choose to remain willfully ignorant.

I am not responding further for your sake, but for the sake of those who read this thread.

> taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd.

Speed (methamphetamine) has the same relationship to Adderall (dextroamphetamines) as methanol does to ethanol; a difference in methyl group.

Ethanol (aka alcohol) is commonly used for recreational purposes.

If you think Adderall is the same thing as "speed", I hope you wouldn't mind drinking a glass of methanol to prove the point that chemically similar substances have similar effects.

> modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals

Which is why the diagnostic criteria for ADHD require a lifelong manifestation of ADHD symptoms.

Notice how you say behaviors, not symptoms or traits, i.e. how people act, and not how they feel, which difficulties they face, what cost they bear, and so on.

The behavior of an ADHD individual might be no different from one without ADHD. We can be on time, for example.

It is just immensely more difficult for us, just like it's difficult for someone with a broken leg that didn't quite heal to walk.

And yes, anyone can bump their toe on a table leg and experience pain for a while. That doesn't mean that people with broken legs don't exist.

>a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd.

It isn't, because we have cheaper and more reliable ways.

The difference is there though.

> you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward - to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction.

Believing that "doping up the populace" is what's taking place is a delusion that I can't address in the same way that I can't address the belief that the Loch Ness monster caused the 2019 Coronavirus pandemic.

Unfortunately, your worldview seem to be as strongly detached from reality as you are convinced about the veracity of your unshakable beliefs.

But again, if you sincerely believe people taking Adderall are taking speed, you really could save a lot on booze by drinking methanol instead.

Do let us know how that goes.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#75

Post by tootie »

alterom wrote: post #10

This article (and the title alone) is harmful. Adderall is not about increasing mental efficiency . What Adderall is about is: - helping with executive dysfunction for people who suffer from it. - allowing people with ADHD like me to function . To do the things that everyone else does, things that we want to do and need to do, but can't do because of the way our brains are wired. - increasing the lifespan of ADHD peo…

Adderall also treats excessive daytime sleepiness associated with narcolepsy and I'd be a shambolic zombie without it. It's downright insulting when people think pharmaceuticals are some kind of shortcut to avoid some more disciplined approach. It's medicine to treat illness. Any medicine can be abused or misused but some of us just really need it to correct dysfunction.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#76

Post by Aeglaecia »

alterom wrote: post #73
Aeglaecia wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So, instead of reading what I wrote, you choose to remain willfully ignorant. I am not responding further for your sake, but for the sake of those who read this thread. > taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd. Speed (methamphetamine) has the same relationship to Adderall (dextroamphetamines) as methanol does to ethanol; a difference in methyl group. Ethanol (aka alcohol) is commonly used…

[flagged]

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#77

Post by loeg »

Loughla wrote: post #65
loeg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adrafinil is straight up unregulated in the US and is metabolized to modafinil in the body if you want to, you know, expand its usage personally.

Just a note for anyone passing by. The side effects are rare, except diarrhea and you need to watch your liver enzyme levels if I remember right. Everyone I know who's taken that had diarrhea the entire time (manageable with meds), and it will screw your liver long term. But I'm not a doctor either so who knows really.

I think the GI effects are basically the same between any of the -afinils, FWIW.

I wouldn't recommend them in general, but mostly because they last too long to really work with a normal 16/8 sleep cycle and the other stimmy effects can detract from things other than focus work.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#78

Post by protocolture »

Aeglaecia wrote: post #70
alterom wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd argue that it is nonsense to treat symptoms instead of the cause (of an issue) , but actually doing just that is quite intellectual when a bunch of money stands to be made What specifically are you talking about here? It appears to me that your comment is an expression of vibe with zero information content. There's no dichotomy between treating symptoms and cause even when the cause is treatable (which isn't the…

[flagged]

>modern western society exhibits a plethora of conditions that are likely to result in the manifestation of adhd behaviours in non adhd individuals

Maybe.

>a brain scan is not part of the diagnostic criteria for labelling adhd

Correct.

>taking speed makes anyone more productive, not just those with adhd

We arent talking about productivity gains.

>for me to reconsider my comment you would have to provide a convincing argument that doping up the populace is objectively the best path forward

"Doping up" is intentionally emotive language and a misrepresentation.

>to me it seems that this is not the best path forward, rather one that serves to minimize societal friction

You dont even clearly state your complaint. Its about patient outcomes, not "society" but you are implying they are also a social good. Great.

The best path forward is to reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. These drugs, reduce the severity of peoples illnesses. People with these illnesses, have a better life due to the medication. Why that upsets you is a deeply internal problem to you, not a problem with society or medicine.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#79

Post by latentsea »

itishappy wrote: post #50
alterom wrote: post #10

This article (and the title alone) is harmful. Adderall is not about increasing mental efficiency . What Adderall is about is: - helping with executive dysfunction for people who suffer from it. - allowing people with ADHD like me to function . To do the things that everyone else does, things that we want to do and need to do, but can't do because of the way our brains are wired. - increasing the lifespan of ADHD peo…

The title is perhaps a bit unfortunate. I don't believe this is specifically about ADHD. Adderall is a stimulant with the effects Huxley predicted. It also happens to treat ADHD. I believe it's being used here in the former capacity.

The thing is, when you have ADHD and you take stimulants you don't feel any sort of high or however it makes people with normally functioning dopamine receptors feel, you just feel normal.

Re: Aldous Huxley predicts Adderall and champions alternative therapies

#80

Post by jdub »

Aeglaecia wrote: post #70
alterom wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd argue that it is nonsense to treat symptoms instead of the cause (of an issue) , but actually doing just that is quite intellectual when a bunch of money stands to be made What specifically are you talking about here? It appears to me that your comment is an expression of vibe with zero information content. There's no dichotomy between treating symptoms and cause even when the cause is treatable (which isn't the…

[flagged]

Correctly prescribed stimulants aren't "doping up the populace", and ADHD existed long before it was described.
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