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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#281

Post by [deleted] »

acuozzo wrote: post #96
donatj wrote: post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

[deleted]

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#282

Post by moffkalast »

acuozzo wrote: post #96
donatj wrote: post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

That seems like the most pointless conversation ever though, neither side really got anything out of it. If you can't infodump or listen to someone else infodump, is it really anything but meaningless pleasantries?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#283

Post by moffkalast »

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” And I thought, oh God, yes, say it to me again, again, put it in my veins. Tell me I’m a natural performer. There are no sweeter words.

> Because of course the absolute opposite is true.

Average LLM conversation.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#284

Post by writebetterc »

moffkalast wrote: post #282
acuozzo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

That seems like the most pointless conversation ever though, neither side really got anything out of it. If you can't infodump or listen to someone else infodump, is it really anything but meaningless pleasantries?

The goal isn't to exchange facts, it's to bond.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#285

Post by lll-o-lll »

thrwwXZTYE wrote: post #255
hekkle wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad it wasn't just me who noticed this. It seems like the author doesn't care at all about other people; only about how to manipulate people into liking them. Gives real narcissist vibes.

Narcissism is a spectrum; everybody's a little narcissistic, and it changes over time. All kids are VERY narcissistic early on, most grow out of it as they experience unconditional love from their parents and are allowed to be their authentic selves in various social contexts. For various reasons - some kids don't. Bullying can certainly contribute. So they develop maladaptive strategies (which can look like the firs…

I mean, it’s literally one of the dark triad. Dark. Not misunderstood.

The DSM basically took all those “traits we think of as evil” and said “we shall make some disorder categories”. People with NPD don’t go and get help, they just run around ruining other peoples lives.

If you’ve never had such a person in your life, good for you! The rest of us don’t care if they can be saved, we just don’t ever want to interact with another one. Ever.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#286

Post by fifticon »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #34

Wow, I can’t get past the first couple of paragraphs. > I’ve tried so hard to learn how to connect with people. It’s all I ever wanted, for so long. Are there really people like this? HN is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but this is so far outside of my bubble that I just cannot relate. Some people feel like this, for real ?

We are legion,I am sorry to say. I can recognise co-sufferers, but not necessarily help them. In older parlance, we would typically just be described as 'a bore', but there is something a lot more specific going on. I am old now, but watching my child daughter now going through the exact same motions, including doing her damndest to impress people with her many skills, and tragic-ironically driving people away from her with that exact behaviour. And I can't figure out how to help her figure it out. (past-50 insights don't resonate with 11year olds, unless you can relate them in youtuber-speak).

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#287

Post by fifticon »

petesergeant wrote: post #258

By far the most important advice in here — which isn’t given explicitly — is set yourself up to meet a lot of new people, because that’s how you learn. I worked in a pub a few nights a week, then I worked in a coaching org, then a bunch of new companies, then met lots of new people via the digital nomad community. You’ll get a little better with a bit of time, and with each new human. Also stay the fuck off IRC.

internet relay chat? what do you mean?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#288

Post by whstl »

etangent wrote: post #72
Aurornis wrote: post #47

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

It's very strange that people are ok with people charming others "naturally" (while it's probably because they learned by imitation, often from parents) while "practicing it" is seen as bad and manipulative.

It's the same with genetics. Getting lucky with looks is fine but working for the same goal (eg surgery) is somehow bad and people often hide it.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#289

Post by thrwwXZTYE »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #285
thrwwXZTYE wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narcissism is a spectrum; everybody's a little narcissistic, and it changes over time. All kids are VERY narcissistic early on, most grow out of it as they experience unconditional love from their parents and are allowed to be their authentic selves in various social contexts. For various reasons - some kids don't. Bullying can certainly contribute. So they develop maladaptive strategies (which can look like the firs…

I mean, it’s literally one of the dark triad. Dark. Not misunderstood. The DSM basically took all those “traits we think of as evil” and said “we shall make some disorder categories”. People with NPD don’t go and get help, they just run around ruining other peoples lives. If you’ve never had such a person in your life, good for you! The rest of us don’t care if they can be saved, we just don’t ever want to interact w…

I am a narcissist. I haven't been diagnosed (yet), but I certainly recognize the traits and patterns, and I'm in therapy for it.

> People with NPD don’t go and get help, they just run around ruining other peoples lives.

This is objectively false. There's lots of people in therapy for NPD. And there have been case studies with people who recovered.

Which brings another point

> The DSM basically took all those “traits we think of as evil” and said “we shall make some disorder categories”.

DSM criteria for narcissism are part of the problem. You can have the exact same mental struggle but stop yourself from hurting people (at least to a reasonable degree - "normal" people also hurt others sometimes after all). And you won't be diagnosed as NPD. But you'll still have all the other problems - lack of human connection, vastly higher chance of suicide, autoimmune diseases, relationship problems, etc.

Which is like saying you only have alcoholism if you beat people on the streets. If you define it that way - of course all alcoholics are violent.

But it's not a productive way to define mental health problems. It leaves out people who struggle with it but don't cause harm.

> The rest of us don’t care if they can be saved, we just don’t ever want to interact with another one. Ever.

That's unlikely given that estimated 0.5-5% of the general population have NPD and about 20% have strong narcissistic traits.

In IT it's probably much higher by the way, it's the perfect job (little human contact, high status, well paid).

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#290

Post by moffkalast »

writebetterc wrote: post #284
moffkalast wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like the most pointless conversation ever though, neither side really got anything out of it. If you can't infodump or listen to someone else infodump, is it really anything but meaningless pleasantries?

The goal isn't to exchange facts, it's to bond.

Well I doubt I'm going to bond by being subjected to painful boredom, and neither will they. I've found it's so socially common to completely forget all of these things people tell you in small talk too, because I'd remember every one of these facts about the other person due to low frequency interactions, while they'll be like "I've never met this man in my life" the next time I talk to them and I can't help but find that a bit hurtful.
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