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Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#51

Post by tharne »

foo-bar-bat wrote: post #12

Raccoons have been living literally inside of houses for centuries. One was kept as a pet in Jamestown Virginia in the 1600s. Another lived in the White House in the 1900s. Surely, not a decade has passed between have there been NO domesticated raccoons in the US? If living near humans changes animals, that started at least 25,000 years ago here in North America. Not recently. My neighbors had a pet raccoon growing u…

> The people who wrote this article seem out of touch with the topic they chose to pretend to be experts about?

This is quickly becoming the norm for experts, unfortunately. I keep seeing more an more people with educational expertise in something that they have zero hands-on or practical experience with.

I remember being at a social event once and chatting with someone who was a business professor at any Ivy League university. Making small talk, I asked him which companies he'd worked at, and he told me that he had gone the academic track and started teaching during and after getting his PhD (in exactly what I don't remember). I remember being stunned that students would pay over $60k a year to learn about business from someone who'd never worked for or started a business.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#52

Post by quickthrowman »

TylerE wrote: post #47
cogman10 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this. Isn't it about as surgically invasive as getting a pet spayed? Does the scent gland do anything more than just stinking? For a cat, removing the claws literally removes bones from them. It limits their mobility and hurts like hell. (Not that I want a pet skunk. Just curious as to why it's unethical)

I mean, you're removing part of a living animal for human convenience. If the ethical issue isn't obvious I don't know what to tell you. The practice has been banned in the UK for almost 20 years, under the exact same laws as ban declawing cats. It's unnecessary mutilation with no medical justification.

We neuter male cats so they don’t spray piss everywhere and spay female cats so they don’t go into heat and scream incessantly to be let outside.

Both procedures seem slightly more invasive than removing a scent gland in a skunk, given that it removes the sex organs that secrete hormones and changes their behavior for the rest of their life.

It’s possible that a skunk gets anxious when it tries to spray and nothing comes out, I can’t say I’m an expert in skunk behavior, it just seems less invasive than spaying or neutering to me.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#53

Post by cogman10 »

TylerE wrote: post #47
cogman10 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this. Isn't it about as surgically invasive as getting a pet spayed? Does the scent gland do anything more than just stinking? For a cat, removing the claws literally removes bones from them. It limits their mobility and hurts like hell. (Not that I want a pet skunk. Just curious as to why it's unethical)

I mean, you're removing part of a living animal for human convenience. If the ethical issue isn't obvious I don't know what to tell you. The practice has been banned in the UK for almost 20 years, under the exact same laws as ban declawing cats. It's unnecessary mutilation with no medical justification.

We do a lot of bad things to animals for human convenience. Including forced breeding and raising them to be slaughtered.

The ethics is murky to me because I assume the procedure doesn't cause lasting pain and allows the animals to be pampered pets. The alternative is they are kept wild.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#54

Post by TylerE »

cogman10 wrote: post #53
TylerE wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're removing part of a living animal for human convenience. If the ethical issue isn't obvious I don't know what to tell you. The practice has been banned in the UK for almost 20 years, under the exact same laws as ban declawing cats. It's unnecessary mutilation with no medical justification.

We do a lot of bad things to animals for human convenience. Including forced breeding and raising them to be slaughtered. The ethics is murky to me because I assume the procedure doesn't cause lasting pain and allows the animals to be pampered pets. The alternative is they are kept wild.

There are plenty of quite happy non-descented skunks out there.

They don’t just go around spraying. It’s a defense mechanism - pretty much their only one as a matter of fact. Tame pets are very unlikely to spray anyone not trying to hurt them.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#55

Post by theoreticalmal »

hojomojo wrote: post #48
smallerize wrote: post #18

Just in time to spread a really awful parasite. https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/09/human-cases-of-racco... "severe, frequently fatal, infections of the eyes, organs, and central nervous system. Those who survive are often left with severe neurological outcomes, including blindness, paralysis, loss of coordination, seizures, cognitive impairments, and brain atrophy"

We treat deer for ticks, etc. A decade ago, I think we would have been smart enough to treat wild raccoons for this parasite, but the time of human domestication is over. In another decade, I expect humans will be marking their territories with feces again.

I, for one, am looking forward to that

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#56

Post by TylerE »

quickthrowman wrote: post #52
TylerE wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're removing part of a living animal for human convenience. If the ethical issue isn't obvious I don't know what to tell you. The practice has been banned in the UK for almost 20 years, under the exact same laws as ban declawing cats. It's unnecessary mutilation with no medical justification.

We neuter male cats so they don’t spray piss everywhere and spay female cats so they don’t go into heat and scream incessantly to be let outside. Both procedures seem slightly more invasive than removing a scent gland in a skunk, given that it removes the sex organs that secrete hormones and changes their behavior for the rest of their life. It’s possible that a skunk gets anxious when it tries to spray and nothing c…

No, we neuter and spay so we are not overrun with feral cats. Not to control where they piss.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#57

Post by lokar »

foo-bar-bat wrote: post #12

Raccoons have been living literally inside of houses for centuries. One was kept as a pet in Jamestown Virginia in the 1600s. Another lived in the White House in the 1900s. Surely, not a decade has passed between have there been NO domesticated raccoons in the US? If living near humans changes animals, that started at least 25,000 years ago here in North America. Not recently. My neighbors had a pet raccoon growing u…

Did it say otherwise?

It primarily says they can now observe physical changes associated with domestication.

Also, keeping a wild animal as a pet does not domesticate it.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#58

Post by markdown »

tharne wrote: post #51
foo-bar-bat wrote: post #12

Raccoons have been living literally inside of houses for centuries. One was kept as a pet in Jamestown Virginia in the 1600s. Another lived in the White House in the 1900s. Surely, not a decade has passed between have there been NO domesticated raccoons in the US? If living near humans changes animals, that started at least 25,000 years ago here in North America. Not recently. My neighbors had a pet raccoon growing u…

> The people who wrote this article seem out of touch with the topic they chose to pretend to be experts about? This is quickly becoming the norm for experts, unfortunately. I keep seeing more an more people with educational expertise in something that they have zero hands-on or practical experience with. I remember being at a social event once and chatting with someone who was a business professor at any Ivy League…

> I remember being stunned that students would pay over $60k a year to learn about business from someone who'd never worked for or started a business.

Were you stunned that your parents paid lots of money to put you in front of educators from kindergarten to college?

Why would you restrict yourself to learning from one businessman when you can get learn from an educator who has distilled the experiences of hundreds if not thousands of business people?

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#59

Post by nunez »

People have been trying to make the house raccoon a thing: https://old.reddit.com/r/raccoons

From what I remember spending time on this topic, raccoons need super challenging locks as toys and TONS of engagement from their keepers because they get bored easily and bored raccoons == ultra destructive raccoons. Also, rabies.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#60

Post by [deleted] »

jakogut wrote: post #2

> Oddly, tameness has also long been associated with traits such as a shorter face, a smaller head, floppy ears and white patches on fur—a pattern that Charles Darwin noted in the 1800s. Hmm, so evolutionary pressure of existing around humans makes animals cuter. I wonder why we find these features endearing?

[deleted]
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