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IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

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Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#101

Post by cholantesh »

pronik wrote: post #74

Whoever thinks that VSCode does not have any learning curve or is somehow magically easy, needs to take a reality check, that thing is overwhelming with all its popups, hovers, sidebars etc. beyond all reason when you first run it (and later too). I'm an Emacs user and I don't in any way support the notion it's somehow easy or intuitively workable, it's most definitely not and never has been. I just think that VSCode…

>that thing is overwhelming with all its popups, hovers, sidebars etc.

I think it's fairly normal if you're coming from heavy IDE use, eg: Eclipse. If you've spent most of your time editing using tmux/[vi|nano|emacs]], maybe that's not the case, but I can't really speak to that as I've never really worked that way.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#102

Post by skydhash »

torben-friis wrote: post #84
skydhash wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VSCode rely on familiar pattern and UX to let you get started easily. But out of the box, it's pretty much notepad level. Vim and Emacs start from the premises that you need powerful tools. And they give them to you alongside the possibility to integrate external tools easily with the editor workflow. With VSCode any integration needs to be a full project. With emacs and vims, it's a few lines of config.

What kind of integration is a full project? Integrating language support for example is usually just heading to the plugins section, searching for the language and clicking install on the most mainstream result. My config for vscode is just like 5 lines to make keyboard travel between panes a bit more vim like, other than that I never needed to change much from defaults. For neovim the work to make it ide-like is a l…

With emacs, you can just use “customize” (for options) and “M-x” (for commands) and never care about anything else. Yes, it’s not as visible as vscode, but it’s very much the same thing.

But once you learn elisp, then you have the power of a full VM at your disposal and not wait for a plugins to exist and hopefully implement your workflow. And adhoc integration (like having ticket number in comments be clickable) is not easily feasible.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#103

Post by giancarlostoro »

chiffaa wrote: post #48
giancarlostoro wrote: post #10

I would love to see a project that rebuilds the Emacs UI but keeps the underlying core to give it a modern facelift, some things in emacs blend together and are a pain for my eyes to figure out whats what. It would be nice if the UI was modernized but the core was left as-is. I'm reminded of some of my favorite editors that are niche being Lisp related ones, where if you held down ctrl it would show you shortcuts in…

It's not exactly what you're looking for but you might be interested in Lem[0]. It's an emacs-style editor but written completely in Common Lisp on top of curses/SDL2. I haven't used it that much (same for Emacs itself, really), but it looks like a very solid foundation [0]: https://github.com/lem-project/lem

Does look interesting, in the meantime I've been hooked on Zed which has users building support for missing Vim features, they claim their goal isn't to 100% emulate Vim functionality, but I would not be shocked if it just winds up having most if not everything most people like about Vim fully baked in.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#104

Post by skydhash »

t_mahmood wrote: post #96
torben-friis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of integration is a full project? Integrating language support for example is usually just heading to the plugins section, searching for the language and clicking install on the most mainstream result. My config for vscode is just like 5 lines to make keyboard travel between panes a bit more vim like, other than that I never needed to change much from defaults. For neovim the work to make it ide-like is a l…

Yeah, now see, you need to do that for every programming language, or tool for vscode. With Lazyvim you get all at once. And you can ignore many plugins if you want, Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode. And thanks to Lazyvim, you can set it up faster but Nvim or vim even without plugins can do many things that vscode can not do. So without plugins vscode i…

There’s a reason almost every good editor (on unix) have the pipe to/from shell feature. With that you have the whole power of the os at your disposal. And in vim, you get the quickfix list for fast navigation according to the output of a grep/build tool.

Someone could make a config to make vim/emacs beginner friendly. But there’s a reason there’s no beginner friendly truck or plane.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#105

Post by torben-friis »

t_mahmood wrote: post #96
torben-friis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of integration is a full project? Integrating language support for example is usually just heading to the plugins section, searching for the language and clicking install on the most mainstream result. My config for vscode is just like 5 lines to make keyboard travel between panes a bit more vim like, other than that I never needed to change much from defaults. For neovim the work to make it ide-like is a l…

Yeah, now see, you need to do that for every programming language, or tool for vscode. With Lazyvim you get all at once. And you can ignore many plugins if you want, Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode. And thanks to Lazyvim, you can set it up faster but Nvim or vim even without plugins can do many things that vscode can not do. So without plugins vscode i…

>Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode.

I’m not arguing against that, I actually moved to neovim and I enjoy it - plus I can now stop worrying that my daily driver will be rug pulled.

I just don’t agree with the idea that neither nvim or eMacs have similar levels of ability to onboard new users. Not when grokking something as simple as closing a tab will get you through a history lesson on the alternate namings of tabs, buffers and windows for example.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#106

Post by newcup »

qiine wrote: post #83
yvdriess wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fairly common for emacs users to bind Ctrl or Meta to caps lock for improved ergonomics. There's also a bunch of RSI sufferers that are using foot pedals, which actually makes a lot of sense. I personally switched to emacs for more than just Lisp when I started developing early signs for RSI. Switching to a purely KB driven interface has saved my wrists.

wait foot pedals ?

Or an accordion! https://x.com/ykarikos/status/1038145486618861573

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#107

Post by pxc »

pronik wrote: post #74

Whoever thinks that VSCode does not have any learning curve or is somehow magically easy, needs to take a reality check, that thing is overwhelming with all its popups, hovers, sidebars etc. beyond all reason when you first run it (and later too). I'm an Emacs user and I don't in any way support the notion it's somehow easy or intuitively workable, it's most definitely not and never has been. I just think that VSCode…

I'm also a daily Emacs user. I'm no wizard; I've leaned on starter kits like Spacemacs and Doom my whole Emacs life.

Likewise, I find VSCode overstimulating and, for lack of a better word, rude.

I just tried setting up RustRover for a side project at work on Friday. It's my first time using an IDE since I was a Scala developer near the beginning of my professional career. I only had an hour or two to play, but I ended up unable to get a working run configuration, or at least one that showed me anything at all except sometimes when it failed. It was a lot of clicking around.

I'll sort it out next week, I'm sure. But pointy-clicky turned out not to be as ez-pz as I'd hoped it would be.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#108

Post by jamesgill »

Emacs for programming is definitely one important use case. This tool seems to focus on that use case, though I think I can get 75% of it by just using Emacs keybindings with regular VSCode.

But Emacs is so much more than an ‘IDE’. I realize some don’t like the Emacs approach of ‘here’s a box of parts and tools, build it the way you want’, but that’s the point of Emacs.

Besides the functional approach, of course, there is the philosophical stance: freedom.

Emacs is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age. But some people prefer blasters, and that’s okay.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#110

Post by pxc »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #97
kleiba wrote: post #94

Long-time (25+ years) Emacs user. The first thing I do on a new installation is turn off the GUI features (like, menus and toolbars) - no-one I know who uses Emacs uses the mouse.

VSCode users, especially new ones, do. The best property of Emacs is that you can modify the lisp machine to do whatever you want.

If you use an editor or IDE at work for a year, you might work with it for a thousand hours that first year alone. But a noisy GUI like VSCode's is optimized for just that first 30 minutes of playing around.

For me, at least, that kind of thing doesn't end up being very enjoyable long-term.

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