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IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

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Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#91
post #69
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, which-key only helps with key sequences. If you press C-c in Org-mode it will show you keys like C-c C-e, but if you hold Ctrl down it won’t show you C-RET for example.

If you want all keybindings, C-h b typically helps, and you can search within the single buffer it returns. Every key in Emacs is bound to something, but a plain modifier key event like Ctrl will not be sent from a terminal to any command that runs inside it, eg Emacs, only the modified key. (There exist modifications/extensions of this protocol, eg kitty, but most combinations wouldnt see these events.)

Sure, I know about C-h b and C-h m and find those useful. But I think what the GP post describes is more contextual: A way to not display every keybinding, but only those directly accessible by pressing the currently held modifier combo followed by one key (so holding Ctrl+Meta for more than a couple of seconds might remind you of all structural editing commands for example).

This is indeed not possible in a classical terminal emulator (don’t know if kkp for example has extensions for it). But most GUI apps can detect individual modifiers being pressed and released, even as separate events. Some editors like VSCode can also bind modifier taps to actions using this ability. In Emacs however this is AFAIK not possible even in the GUI, because of how keybindings are handled deep down.

The UI pattern described by the GP does exist in some other apps and platforms. For example, if you connect an external keyboard to an iPad, holding down the Cmd modifier for a couple of seconds will show you a popup which-key-like overview of all Cmd+key keybindings.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#92
post #28

I would love to see a project that rebuilds the Emacs UI but keeps the underlying core to give it a modern facelift, some things in emacs blend together and are a pain for my eyes to figure out whats what. It would be nice if the UI was modernized but the core was left as-is. I'm reminded of some of my favorite editors that are niche being Lisp related ones, where if you held down ctrl it would show you shortcuts in…

I'd argue the opposite. UI is ok, it can be configured to look timeless (not modern). But the core with its single thread processing and constant hangs, requiring you to repeatedly hit C-g at least once a day, is first in line for "facelift".

So we all agree we need Emacs 2.0™, rewriting both the UI and the guts? /j

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#93
post #45

I would love to see a project that rebuilds the Emacs UI but keeps the underlying core to give it a modern facelift, some things in emacs blend together and are a pain for my eyes to figure out whats what. It would be nice if the UI was modernized but the core was left as-is. I'm reminded of some of my favorite editors that are niche being Lisp related ones, where if you held down ctrl it would show you shortcuts in…

I would actually change as little as possible. The current UI has it quirks, but has the great advantage that it looks the same irrespective of whether you're in an graphical environment (Xorg/Wayland/Windows/MacOS) on in a terminal (either local or remote via ssh). I *love* that treemacs looks pretty much the same everywhere.

It doesn’t really look the same by default.

Most new users end up disabling the toolbar, menu bar, scroll bars, etc. and only then does it look the same in the terminal. Even then, many themes and packages frivolously change font sizes or switch to non-monospace fonts in some GUI contexts, so for users that like the uniformity of the interface you need to do extra work to disable these features.

(I personally like the terminal aesthetic, and configure the GUI to look like a terminal. That basically required advising load-theme to loop over all faces and disable font properties I don’t like after each theme change…)

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#95

i still use emacs everyday, with the native UI. but i love the idea of this project. Personaly i never get used to the UI of VSCode. seems so hard to understand because in emacs you deal with functions not UI buttons.

> Personaly i never get used to the UI of VSCode. seems so hard to understand because in emacs you deal with functions not UI buttons.

I prefer both Vim and Emacs over VSCode, but I teach intro programming at a university and use VSCode in the lectures.

VSCode is actually quite decent if you use it as a keyboard-driven thing with a distraction-free interface. By the former, I mean that Cmd-Shift-P does the same as Emacs’ M-x, and from the keybinding hints you quickly learn any recurring useful bindings (or can change them under Cmd-K Cmd-S when they feel bad). By the latter, I mean that nearly every UI element can be disabled (activity bar, tab bar, status bar, scroll bar, most buttons, indent guides, gutters, etc.) and if you spend 30min disabling the fluff it looks as minimal as Emacs. You don’t really need the UI elements if you learn Cmd-Shift-P and basic keybindings, which as an Emacs user you’ll pick up in a week.

Not trying to sell VSCode here, as I said I don’t prefer it myself. I really tried to switch some times, but I don’t like the Microsoft monoculture nor the importance of proprietary plugins (like remote development and pylance), and an Electron app usually has some weirdness when it comes to font rendering, UI bugs, etc. compared to native or terminal apps.

But if you have to use it, it’s actually not bad if you approach it in the same way you’d approach Emacs: Call functions with Cmd-Shift-P (can rebind to M-x if you want), and invoke more common functions via keybindings instead of UI elements.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VSCode rely on familiar pattern and UX to let you get started easily. But out of the box, it's pretty much notepad level. Vim and Emacs start from the premises that you need powerful tools. And they give them to you alongside the possibility to integrate external tools easily with the editor workflow. With VSCode any integration needs to be a full project. With emacs and vims, it's a few lines of config.

What kind of integration is a full project? Integrating language support for example is usually just heading to the plugins section, searching for the language and clicking install on the most mainstream result. My config for vscode is just like 5 lines to make keyboard travel between panes a bit more vim like, other than that I never needed to change much from defaults. For neovim the work to make it ide-like is a l…

Yeah, now see, you need to do that for every programming language, or tool for vscode.

With Lazyvim you get all at once. And you can ignore many plugins if you want,

Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode. And thanks to Lazyvim, you can set it up faster

but Nvim or vim even without plugins can do many things that vscode can not do. So without plugins vscode is just an editor, while Nvim/vim are powerful utilities

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#97
post #94

Long-time (25+ years) Emacs user. The first thing I do on a new installation is turn off the GUI features (like, menus and toolbars) - no-one I know who uses Emacs uses the mouse.

VSCode users, especially new ones, do. The best property of Emacs is that you can modify the lisp machine to do whatever you want.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#98
post #74

Whoever thinks that VSCode does not have any learning curve or is somehow magically easy, needs to take a reality check, that thing is overwhelming with all its popups, hovers, sidebars etc. beyond all reason when you first run it (and later too). I'm an Emacs user and I don't in any way support the notion it's somehow easy or intuitively workable, it's most definitely not and never has been. I just think that VSCode…

I’ve been using emacs for very many years, and have a configuration that has evolved over a decade.

I was able to pick up VSCode in an hour. It’s not complicated. I’m using it with the Haskell extension and it’s great.

Honestly, I’m tired of Emacs’ performance, bugs, complexity, and poor UI that requires an enormous amount of hacking to make a usable IDE.

VSCode is a breath of fresh air. The only things I’m not using it for are languages that don’t have extensions yet — Cryptol and SAW.

Re: IDEmacs: A Visual Studio Code clone for Emacs

#99
As a 15+ years emacs user the only item on my wishlist is client-server remote editing mode similar to that of vs code. Then I can go back to using emacs on cloud VMs. Does anyone know a solution to this that works as good as VS Code even when your latency is high? Hopefully, I will be pissed off with all the weird configuration flags of VS Code enough to write one myself ;-) To be fair its python integration is quite good at least for the usual stuff.
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