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Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

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Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#341

Post by LightBug1 »

UltraSane wrote: post #312
LightBug1 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure. All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideolog…

Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.

"Equivalent"...

So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also.

I think we're getting somewhere.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#342

Post by yoavm »

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #294
yoavm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a UN report on it: https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm This was the conclusion of both UN and EU committees: "the two groups' fighters "committed widespread sexual and gender-based violence in a systematic manner, using it as a weapon of war"" "In July 2025, Hamas was added to the UN's sexual violence blacklist" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violen... As well as individual res…

Hi, your mention of the UN report made me look at the actual report in an effort to find the truth of the matter. So let's go deeper into the UN report as it's often cited as a proof of rape, but as we'll see by the end of it, there isn't actually any evidence for it other than "people said" (for more context of why I'm dismissing this, look at the points below and especially at the end of this post). Please do doubl…

No, you are spreading lies. I won't engage any further but I'll just say that there is absolutely no video evidence, not even one, showing a rape of a Palestinian by Israeli soldiers. What there is is a video that shows Israeli soldiers standing around and beating a Palestinian prisoner, that happened to be a Hamas police-officer. The video is very unclear.

The vast majority of the discussion in Israel isn't around the the right to torture prisoners (I have actually never heard anyone argue that). That's also a lie. The discussion is around whether or not it happened.

The usage of rape as part of Palestinian resistance isn't exactly a new thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ori_Ansbacher

The main difference is that in Israel, people who are suspected in doing such things would be trialed, and if found guilty, sent to jail. That's true by the way not specifically for rape, but also for harming a Palestinian in any other ways. Trails against settlers violence, for example, take place all the time. Yes, much more needs to be done, but it happens. On the Palestinian side, however, I cannot recall a single case of Palestinian facing legal charges for ever harming a Jew, and it's not because it never happens.

Does Israel have a perfect legal system? Absolutely not. But it has a system that has put many Israelis behind bars, while the Palestinian Authority usually pays compensation for those who blew up civilian buses when I was child.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#343

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

UltraSane wrote: post #310
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No sane person is "pretending" to be offended by the despicable actions of Hamas on Oct 7 2023 Interesting how your memory starts and stops at that very moment, ignoring israel's terroristic hostage-taking, raping, torturing, killing, and genocide, which happened before and after that date, in greater numbers . To me, that sort of whataboutism when deflecting the criticism of israel which was the original topic, in…

"in greater numbers." Prove it Hamas's explicit goal is the destruction of Israel and creating an Islamic state to replace it. Do you support this? What is your ideal solution to the conflict? Hamas is essentially a less ambitious ISIS. Hamas similarities to ISIS: -Sunni Islamist organizations seeking Sharia-based states -Totalitarian control in their territories -Systematic killing of political opponents and "collab…

> [person complaining about whataboutism proceeds to make a post consisting entirely of whataboutism to distract from the topic of israel]

Considering israel is guilty of everything you listed and worse (including genocide), and in greater amounts, this isn't even a good 'whataboutism' from you. Indeed, no amount of whataboutism, nothing hamas has done or can do justifies israel's crimes. Either way, try to stay on topic (israel) rather than engaging in whataboutism (deflecting from israel with 'whatabout hamas!?') and spreading anti-jewish slurs.

By the way, I think our fellow poster is still waiting for an answer from you here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45940799

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#344

Post by nailer »

cardanome wrote: post #140
nailer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like you don't have to agree with their methods but expecting them to do nothing while Israel murders them But Israel's not murdering them. The war has a very low civilian to combatant death ratio.

According to the UN 70% of the dead are women and children There are children with sniper bullets in their bodies. This is not war, this is ethnic cleansing.

The UN pays for schools for children to be brainwashed into suicide to kill as many Israelis as possible via UNRWA - it is not a reliable source of information.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#345

Post by luckylion »

stavros wrote: post #291
luckylion wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency. "This must never stand" vs "This must not stand in this particular case only because it negatively affects my group".

Yes, when you don't care about anything because your ancestors were ousted from the Euphrates delta five thousand years ago, I'm sure consistency will help.

It helps separate principled people from others. Some will say "countries must never be invaded, occupied, or annexed", others will add "... if it's done by Israel, but I'll absolutely ignore/support it if it's done by Turkey, Russia, China".

And the latter group is fundamentally not principled, they are biased to the core, and this is an easy way to tell them apart.

It's like people who are against capital punishment vs people who are against capital punishment when it affects them & their friends.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#346

Post by stavros »

luckylion wrote: post #345
stavros wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when you don't care about anything because your ancestors were ousted from the Euphrates delta five thousand years ago, I'm sure consistency will help.

It helps separate principled people from others. Some will say "countries must never be invaded, occupied, or annexed", others will add "... if it's done by Israel, but I'll absolutely ignore/support it if it's done by Turkey, Russia, China". And the latter group is fundamentally not principled, they are biased to the core, and this is an easy way to tell them apart. It's like people who are against capital punishmen…

Maybe my principle is "I should stand up against any current invasion, gradually caring less over twenty years". The two options you present aren't the only two that exist.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#347

Post by UltraSane »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #343
UltraSane wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"in greater numbers." Prove it Hamas's explicit goal is the destruction of Israel and creating an Islamic state to replace it. Do you support this? What is your ideal solution to the conflict? Hamas is essentially a less ambitious ISIS. Hamas similarities to ISIS: -Sunni Islamist organizations seeking Sharia-based states -Totalitarian control in their territories -Systematic killing of political opponents and "collab…

> [person complaining about whataboutism proceeds to make a post consisting entirely of whataboutism to distract from the topic of israel] Considering israel is guilty of everything you listed and worse (including genocide), and in greater amounts, this isn't even a good 'whataboutism' from you. Indeed, no amount of whataboutism, nothing hamas has done or can do justifies israel's crimes. Either way, try to stay on t…

Please stop ignoring everything I say about Hamas with "Israel bad too". Do you or do you NOT want Hamas to replace Israel with a ISIS style Islamic state, as that is their goal. Have you ever read their insane rant of a Charter?

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#348

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

UltraSane wrote: post #347
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [person complaining about whataboutism proceeds to make a post consisting entirely of whataboutism to distract from the topic of israel] Considering israel is guilty of everything you listed and worse (including genocide), and in greater amounts, this isn't even a good 'whataboutism' from you. Indeed, no amount of whataboutism, nothing hamas has done or can do justifies israel's crimes. Either way, try to stay on t…

Please stop ignoring everything I say about Hamas with "Israel bad too". Do you or do you NOT want Hamas to replace Israel with a ISIS style Islamic state, as that is their goal. Have you ever read their insane rant of a Charter?

First, I ask that you please stop ignoring everything everyone is saying about israel with "hamas bad too" [0][1][2][3].

Remember, israel was the topic until someone engaged in whataboutism w/r/t hamas. 'But hamas' here, on the topic of israel's bad behavior, is a tu quoque fallacy. Someone's bad behavior cannot be solely defended on the basis of 'but so and so did X', and israel's behavior in particular (oppression, civilian kidnapping, rape, torture, mass killing, collective punishment, crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide) is indefensible, period.

Do you or do you NOT want israel to continue their campaign of oppression, civilian kidnapping, rape, torture, mass killing, collective punishment, crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide?

Have you ever heard the insane rants of their leaders about Palestine and innocent Palestinian civilians [4]? It's the same language hitler used to describe jews like myself, and advocate for our extermination: "human animals"; "it is an entire nation out there that is responsible"; "they should starve to death"; "we must make sure that Gaza is empty of Gazans". That's bad!

As a kid visiting Holocaust museums, I was taught the lessons of "never again", and recognized that it meant for all people. Let's all learn from that horrible genocide, and stop this one being perpetrated by israel.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45938854

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932235

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45934291

3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45934210

4: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/05/21/i...

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#349

Post by UltraSane »

LightBug1 wrote: post #341
UltraSane wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.

"Equivalent"... So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also. I think we're getting somewhere.

The use of the term Nazi is deeply stupid. But Israel does need to chill a bit and care more about their global PR. But they are surrounded by countries that really DO want to destroy them so I can understand why they are so trigger happy. The way they destroyed Hezbollah was brilliant. The Hamas charter is a giant Islamist Jew-hating rant.

Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet

#350

Post by api »

UltraSane wrote: post #349
LightBug1 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Equivalent"... So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also. I think we're getting somewhere.

The use of the term Nazi is deeply stupid. But Israel does need to chill a bit and care more about their global PR. But they are surrounded by countries that really DO want to destroy them so I can understand why they are so trigger happy. The way they destroyed Hezbollah was brilliant. The Hamas charter is a giant Islamist Jew-hating rant.

It’s hard for me not to have a “black pilled” view of this region. They’ll never have peace until they actually want it. There’s too many nuts on every side whose whole purpose for living is to see anyone who isn’t just like them dead.

Unfortunately the regular civilian who live in this region suffer for it. The only way out I can see would be some kind of cross border cross culture mass uprising against all the fanatics and those who fund and enable them.

It should also serve as a warning for us. We can have peace and prosperity because we have, as a culture, managed to restrain these kinds of impulses. We flirt with hyper polarization and fanatical ideologies at our own peril. Those who promote this stuff for short term political or economic gain should be compared, maybe, to people playing around with dangerous gain of function research on disease organisms. This stuff takes hold and our countries will look like the war zones of the Middle East.

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