Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hamas's explicit goal is to destroy Israel.
And? ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on? /Rhetorical.
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Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
311–320 of 370 posts
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Germany and I can tell you German denazification was a complete failure. Yes they're not run by a party calling itself NSDAP. Yes there haven't been concentration camps. Yes everyone knows you have to protect Jews. But the underlying feelings are still there - they're just directed towards different groups. Germany is inching closer to doing it again with Muslims.
Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure. All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideolog…
Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
The conversation is about trying to do everyday activities inside of a combat zone. The international community's opinion about the war is, I should think this is obvious, not the relevant factor. It doesn't matter what people think of the war, only that _there is war_. I think it's safe to say that Ukraine and Gaza are both plenty distracting places to work. That said, even though it's totally off-topic, I can't hel…
It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened, or you just don't care they did. Average Westerner knowledge of Western history, I understand. Yes, they have consistently toppled governments, meddled in the affairs of other countries, and enabled and funded colonalism and imperialism wherever they went. Although the good news i…
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Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened, or you just don't care they did. Average Westerner knowledge of Western history, I understand. Yes, they have consistently toppled governments, meddled in the affairs of other countries, and enabled and funded colonalism and imperialism wherever they went. Although the good news i…
> Although the good news is that Israel is and will be the last true Western colonial state. What do you think Russia is?
You think Russia is a Western power and ally?
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
So standing soldiers of the occupying army taken from a military kibbutz mere miles from the world's largest open air concentration camp? Hind al-Rajab was 6 years old and was found with hundreds of bullets inside her body. This is not a game Israel can afford to play, so let's just rewind to the beginning and ask how many the Irgun and Haganah killed and bombed to strong-arm the British into giving them Palestine? O…
Odd that you talk about concentration camps when the George Washington of Palestinian nationalism collaborated with Hitler and help recruit Muslim SS troops in order to commit actual genocide. "In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world."…
You're right, that historical event of WWII involving at most 20,000 Arabs absolutely gave Europeans the right to occupy a land they have no link to and conduct a genocide killing hundreds of thousands and ethnically cleansing millions more. Wait, were the Irgun and Haganah time travellers who predicted this historical event? Is that why they started moving towards their goals of Zionist occupation, colonialism and terrorism in the 19th century?
What about this, does this make the Zionists anti-semitic too? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement It's almost like Zionists are closer in ideology to the Nazis than they want to admit.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Odd that you talk about concentration camps when the George Washington of Palestinian nationalism collaborated with Hitler and help recruit Muslim SS troops in order to commit actual genocide. "In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world."…
You're right, that historical event of WWII involving at most 20,000 Arabs absolutely gave Europeans the right to occupy a land they have no link to and conduct a genocide killing hundreds of thousands and ethnically cleansing millions more. Wait, were the Irgun and Haganah time travellers who predicted this historical event? Is that why they started moving towards their goals of Zionist occupation, colonialism and t…
"Palestinian" is an antisemitic construct invoked in an attempt to destroy the Jewish homeland.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened, or you just don't care they did. Average Westerner knowledge of Western history, I understand. Yes, they have consistently toppled governments, meddled in the affairs of other countries, and enabled and funded colonalism and imperialism wherever they went. Although the good news i…
> It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened What it comes down to is whether you can admit that the events of October 7th provoked a new military campaign that would not otherwise have happened. You can either admit that, or you can admit that you’re just going to what-about no matter what happens, and never speak honestly…
No, what it comes down to is whether you can admit that Palestine and Gaza are being occupied by a colonial power that doesn't have the right to be there, has consistently engaged in ethnic cleansing, genocide of entire villages and war crimes since its foundation, and that resistance to it will continue until that fact changes considerably. No-one living in a Western bubble, least of all Israel, gets to set the terms by which a people who Westerners have helped occupy for the last 70 years resist - just ask the Viet Cong. Whataboutism is the fallacy of pointing to irrelevant examples, so no, pointing out hypocrisy is not that. As for asymmetry, I assume you're talking about the fact that one is a heavily armed Western-funded superpower and the other is a handful of militias using the few arms they can get hold of from the only real ally they have in Iran, and not much stronger than they were in 1948 and 1967 when they were villagers being waged "war" on by said superpower.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, antisemitism, in the same way it was anti-Americanism for the Viet Cong to resist the American occupation of Vietnam and that famous terrorist Mandela to resist apartheid South Africa. Desperate people who have heinous things done on them for 70 years do desperate, heinous things, and no-one is more desperate and more wronged than the Palestinians. Again, 70 years. It's almost like Europeans don't belong in the…
Thing is, that motivation doesn't make the heinous acts any less heinous. When Viet Kong tortured and executed civilians who happened to be opposed to their ideology, that was wrong. When South African revolutionaries bombed churches, that was wrong. We should absolutely be holding Israel to account for all its crimes, but that does not imply whitewashing Hamas.
Is that what you see happening? Because I see most Western powers continuing to fund and enable Israel to act with impunity while reserving their harshest criticism for Hamas - the resistance movement set up in 1984, 40 years after Israel invaded Palestine, by the children who had grown up knowing nothing else. An occupier does not get to set the terms of how a desperate occupied people resist, least of all after 80 years, which was a lot longer than Vietnam lasted, and is much worse than South African apartheid. There's a reason Mandela was vehemently pro-Palestine. We can talk about how Hamas and the Palestinian people chose to resist their occupiers and hold them accountable for their relatively benign crimes once the occupation is ended. Right now, Westerners can't even admit that occupation exists, so we're nowhere near that, and virtually any criticism of Hamas is actually an attempt at deflection and maintaining the status quo of the last 80 years.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, that historical event of WWII involving at most 20,000 Arabs absolutely gave Europeans the right to occupy a land they have no link to and conduct a genocide killing hundreds of thousands and ethnically cleansing millions more. Wait, were the Irgun and Haganah time travellers who predicted this historical event? Is that why they started moving towards their goals of Zionist occupation, colonialism and t…
"Palestinian" is an antisemitic construct invoked in an attempt to destroy the Jewish homeland.
Sure it is, the people that had been living there - Muslim, Jew and Christian - for almost a thousand years in relative harmony never actually existed and had no name or identidy whatsoever until Israel arrived in 1948 to give them one.
Re: Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Germany and I can tell you German denazification was a complete failure. Yes they're not run by a party calling itself NSDAP. Yes there haven't been concentration camps. Yes everyone knows you have to protect Jews. But the underlying feelings are still there - they're just directed towards different groups. Germany is inching closer to doing it again with Muslims.
Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure. All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideolog…
> Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany
This statement is copium, and part of the problem. The first half of Nazi Germany was nothing compared to the second half. Hitler was chancellor for 11 years, and every year was worse than the one before. The war and the Holocaust only happened towards the end. And the trajectory the USA has been going on so far is not dissimilar to the first half of the Nazis.