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6B Miles Driven

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Re: 6B Miles Driven

#81

Post by DarmokJalad1701 »

tomrod wrote: post #39
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #7

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

Yeah, I'll be honest, that sounds awful. I like public transit and I like driving myself. Hybridizing with me in the drivers seat but not touching the wheel sounds annoying and tiresome.

My experience has been different. I find that not needing to have hyper-focus for extended periods of time with constant micro-adjustments has a big effect on fatigue - especially on long trips. Not needing to touch the wheel while using gaze-detection for attention tracking just reduces the annoyance IMO.

I find it very similar to operating an airplane with a reliable autopilot. The GFC-700 is super good at what it does. But it is still on me to monitor what it is doing, while at the same time significantly reducing my workload.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#82

Post by Workaccount2 »

ajross wrote: post #74
Workaccount2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that if it drives well for 30,000 miles (unsupervised) on residential roads before steam rolling little billy on his bike, you will get a deluge of people who swear the system is excellent. But when you incorporate that tech into a fleet doing 100k residential miles a week with no supervisor, your mowing down 12 kids a month.

How many kids has it steamrollered? Obviously not 12 a month! Seems like this is an argument to be had with real numbers, no?

Zero, because there isn't, and hasn't been, a single unsupervised Tesla on the road.

There are no real numbers, because there are no real self-driving Teslas.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#83

Post by Workaccount2 »

kentonv wrote: post #75
Workaccount2 wrote: post #32

Interventions Elon, interventions. Tesla really trying to engineer good will, and unsurprisingly only using their own data, which paves over things like "driver intervention prevented FSD from crashing in this instance" or "FSD disengaged 2s before crash, therefore driver error". Rather than play statistics games with self-reported dressed up supervised driving data to try and trick people into rolling the mortality…

How do you meaningfully count interventions, though? I intervene on FSD all the time, but only due to differences of opinion, like I want to take a different route, or I think it's being too cautious, or I want to change lanes earlier / later than it decided to. In a year of use I can't remember a time when I intervened to prevent an accident. So if you just looked at number of interventions in my data, it doesn't re…

Tesla has the data from Austin, they closely track when the supervisor pulls the e-stop. But that data, the most critical data, is unsurprisingly absent here.

The dude has got six weeks to get those supervisors out of the car, and he isn't even giving the most critical data around them. Not a good sign.

Elon will probably find a near closed loop around an empty development in Austin, put two robotaxis there without a driver, and let people do a loop. Tesla contractors will walk the area an stop people from crossing when a robotaxi is near. Then he will proclaim there are driverless taxis in Austin and that they will expand to the rest of the US by mid 2026, and then talk about how actually optimus robots in 2027 are the real thing to focus on.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#84

Post by xnx »

cma wrote: post #25
xnx wrote: post #22

Good progress, but important to keep in mind that the number of unsupervised miles is zero.

I think they made one delivery they claimed was unsupervised. It might have had lead cars and chase cars like early Waymo, and a custom build with HD mapping, I'm not sure.

Yes, and likely also a live teleoperator ready to "grab the wheel".

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#85

Post by xnx »

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #7

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

> I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

What's the usefulness of this if you still have to pay attention at all times?

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#86

Post by ajross »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #82
ajross wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids has it steamrollered? Obviously not 12 a month! Seems like this is an argument to be had with real numbers, no?

Zero, because there isn't, and hasn't been, a single unsupervised Tesla on the road. There are no real numbers, because there are no real self-driving Teslas.

So... that was exactly the point upthread. You're making a semantic argument over the proper definition for the word "real" when applied to autonomous vehicle systems. Nothing in this argument is actionable in any way. You can't conjure real dead kids, so you need to describe hypothetical ones. That's... yeah.

Nonetheless, our cars drive us around anyway. Neither they, nor us, actually care about hypothetical steamrollered kids.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#87

Post by Workaccount2 »

ajross wrote: post #86
Workaccount2 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero, because there isn't, and hasn't been, a single unsupervised Tesla on the road. There are no real numbers, because there are no real self-driving Teslas.

So... that was exactly the point upthread. You're making a semantic argument over the proper definition for the word "real" when applied to autonomous vehicle systems. Nothing in this argument is actionable in any way. You can't conjure real dead kids, so you need to describe hypothetical ones. That's... yeah. Nonetheless , our cars drive us around anyway. Neither they, nor us, actually care about hypothetical steamr…

The argument is that Tesla needs to be doing hundreds of thousands of miles without intervention to be trusted for robotaxis.

Most people using FSD don't come close to the mileage needed to get an idea of the safety level needed. If a Tesla robotaxi kills a kid, Tesla is done, and there won't be a coming back.

So Tesla actually needs millions of miles without critical intervention before they can confidently let these things en masse out on the streets.

A whole tesla fanboy meetup collectively will not have enough FSD miles to see something like that, but a robotaxi fleet will encounter it within a year.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#88

Post by jiriro »

xnx wrote: post #85
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #7

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

> I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore! What's the usefulness of this if you still have to pay attention at all times?

The level of engagement during the FSD (I only oversee the FSD) is about 10% of the engagement during “I drive”.

Nobody can be told what FSD is. You have to see it for yourself.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#90

Post by verdverm »

iaw wrote: post #49
mlmonkey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I bought my Tesla, I had State Farm coverage for my existing (8 yo) car. State Farm quoted me a rate of $240/mo for switching insurance to the Tesla ( up from $130/mo ). This is in California, Bay Area. On a whim, I fired up the Tesla app and requested a quote for insurance through them. They quoted me $134/mo. I know, anecdata, size = 1. But I was surprised how low it was. I sent the coverage information to Sta…

Have you had to file a claim with them yet? I go with State Farm not because I can get a cheaper rate but because for their price they provide all of the services I expect from my insurance company when I need them. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/comments/1kji0bm/just_fil...

Second this, after one incident (at fault) and having to pay nothing for the other persons $4k bill (no hassle, no deductible), SF is a good choice and paid itself back
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