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The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

m.theatlantic.com

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Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#91
post #63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the numbers thrown around are often a lot of hand waving. However, let me make a few points few points. 1. Check out the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development. They calculate the cost to create a new drug and their methodology is very transparent. http://csdd.tufts.edu/research/research_milestones 2. You can do a simple sniff test on these numbers. Simply call up a CRO that runs clinical trials…

I have heard that drug patents are trivially circumvented by adding some irrelevant part to the active molecule. Instead it is the FDA approval process that prevents ripoffs. Doesn't that mean pharma is the one industry where patents could be abolished with literally no consequence?

It is true that you can get around a patent by creating a slightly different molecule. However, drug companies aren't stupid. When they patent a drug, they are patenting a pretty big space around their molecule of interest. Pretty much every modification you can think of, they will patent. The resulting patents aren't just one molecule but rather an IP "space".

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#92
The article summarizes the alleged benefits of patents as:

a) They improve productivity (I'm assuming this is somehow an Economic encapsulation of the benefit of technological progress, although AFAIK technological progress is essentially a Big Problem for economic analysis, and one of those things that Economists wave off as a pathological one-off event that ruins their assumptions, so I'm guessing it's A-OK for Economists to approximate technological progress -- something they can't really cope with -- as simply output / production cost).

b) They are an alternative to trade secrets, which is dismissed in a single paragraph with the argument that you'll only patent something you can't protect for longer with trade secrets (because, as a typical economic actor you are omniscient and can perfectly predict how long you'll be able to protect something with a patent vs. secrecy).

The follow-up paragraph says this (emphasis mine):

> A more subtle point is that secrecy may bias the type of inventive activity away from innovations that are not easily kept secret to those that can be, viceversa for patents. There is historical evidence from Moser [2004, 2005] in this direction. In 19th Century expositions of inventions, while countries without patent systems had overall rates of innovation similar to those with a patent system, they did specialize in innovations which were more easily kept secret. How strong this bias would be if no countries had patent systems – that is, whether it is true that patents encourage innovations that would not otherwise be made, or if they just shift the location of innovation from country to country – is not known.

Oops. So this argument appears to be well-founded, and we don't know how big the effect is. Never mind, moving right along...

> A good case in point is that of the Wright brothers, who made a modest improvement in existing flight technology which they kept secret until they could lock it down on patents, then used their patents both to monopolize the U.S. market and to prevent innovation for nearly 20 years.

Yes, there was no innovation in flight technology between 1903 and 1923.

> The modern and highly successful open source software movement is a more contemporary example of how collaboration and exchange of ideas thrives absent intellectual property.

This is where they lose me. OK they lost me a while back. Where is the great open source project which is so awesome everyone is imitating it? Open Source is great at commodifying innovations produced by others. We've got imitation Windows UI, imitation Mac UI, imitation iOS, imitation UNIX, imitation Microsoft Office, imitation Photoshop...

> On the other side of the coin, the rationale for patent systems is weak. In most industries the first mover advantage and the competitive rents it induces are substantial without patents. Again: the smart- phone industry – laden as it is with patent litigation – is a case in point.

So, do they think Apple's first mover advantage would have been worth much if competitors had simply cloned everything it did? It was the delicate dance of ripping off Apple's ideas without crossing the line that created at least of the first mover advantage in this case.

I could go on and on -- the authors certainly do.

> In the case of patents, and particularly pharmaceutical patents, the situation is even more severe. We have made mention of the loss of human life due to the pricing of AIDS drugs.

Right, so kudos to the patent system for giving investors a reason to invest money and attention span to creating AIDS drugs, but once they're created they should sell them at break-even? Oh wait, no. No kudos to the patent system for the former -- they were inevitable. People like spending their money making stuff. It happens.

> A simple model helps to focus these thoughts. We suppose that there are two firms i = 1,2 who must choose between innovating (I) and not innovating (N). We have in mind here the creation of a new product, so that the choice to innovate is paramount to entering the market – a firm that does not innovate is assumed to have no product to sell.

Maybe if we do some pretend math it will make our thinking seem more rigorous. As something of a failed mathematician I like counter-examples. In this universe these guys are basing their entire theory on, the entire market for laundry soap does not exist.

It's just magical thinking.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#93
post #90
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Big Pharma has an interest in keeping these costs high to prevent competition?

I guess that raises a few questions. 1) How do they keep them high? They are buying these services from a third-party. 2) These cost of clinical trials is increasing because FDA evidence requirements are getting stricter and stricter. Back in the 1950s, you could get a drug approved in under 2 years. Now? It's more like 5-8 years. Of course, you end up with much safer drugs this way.

I think #2 answers #1. AKA, they have pushed legislation to increase FDA requirements.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#94
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see (har har) an invisible hand guiding commercial pharmaceutical development. I see an oligopoly of pharmaceutical corporations acting out of unenlightened self interest. From my layman's perspective, it seems that curing diseases is largely done by government- and university-funded research, while treating symptoms for profit is the domain of corporate R&D.

Do you have a source for that? Most drug discovery and development is done in the private sector. Think 60%+. Of the stuff that is gov't funded, it's basic research, not the development that actually gets a drug to market and that's what costs so much money. EDIT: Wanted to provide some numbers. 252 drug were approved by the FDA from 1998 to 2007[1]. Where did they come from? 58% from pharmaceutical companies 18% fro…

You need to dig a little deeper than that. Of the 252 drugs, how many where minor modifications of existing drugs. And how many where targeted based on government funded research.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#96
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, Amazon counts. Perhaps RIM isn't dead quite yet either. But the point remains.

RIM isn't a US company.

Well, there you go. Guess I'd assumed it was US-based since they'd had such a problem with patent trolls in the US.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#97
I don't know how the US patent legislation is implemented but in many countries patents come with a compulsory license. That means that a patent holder cannot restrict others from using his invention. He only has the right to ask for the proper compensation. I think such a clause is imperative to truly have an effective means of promoting innovation.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#98
post #93
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that raises a few questions. 1) How do they keep them high? They are buying these services from a third-party. 2) These cost of clinical trials is increasing because FDA evidence requirements are getting stricter and stricter. Back in the 1950s, you could get a drug approved in under 2 years. Now? It's more like 5-8 years. Of course, you end up with much safer drugs this way.

I think #2 answers #1. AKA, they have pushed legislation to increase FDA requirements.

Considering drug companies are always fighting with the FDA to do the bare minimum in terms of clinical studies, I would fathom to guess that your theory can't be supported with the existing evidence.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property , types of intellectual property other than patents include copyright, trademarks, industrial design rights, and trade secrets. You could get rid of patents while keeping those other types of intellectual property.

And what's the efficacy of copyright, trademark, design rights, and trade secrets in protecting a new process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter? The first three are not applicable, and the fourth may protect innovation but comes at the expense of no public disclosure.

I agree. I don't know how you could have IP without patents.

Re: The Case for Abolishing Patents (Yes, All of Them)

#100
post #94
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that? Most drug discovery and development is done in the private sector. Think 60%+. Of the stuff that is gov't funded, it's basic research, not the development that actually gets a drug to market and that's what costs so much money. EDIT: Wanted to provide some numbers. 252 drug were approved by the FDA from 1998 to 2007[1]. Where did they come from? 58% from pharmaceutical companies 18% fro…

You need to dig a little deeper than that. Of the 252 drugs, how many where minor modifications of existing drugs. And how many where targeted based on government funded research.

Click on the link I provided and read the details. I even quoted the relevant numbers.

Of the 252 drugs that were approved, 118 were regarded as "scientifically novel" (not me-too drugs or minor modifications of existing drugs). They also did another cut where they looked at FDA "priority approvals", which basically means the FDA was willing to fast track the approval because the disease the drug was treating had no effective treatment.

As to your second question, over 60% of the scientifically novel therapies were discovered by pharma/biotech. They would have received no government funding for their research. The remaining 40% or so were discovered in university labs, of which a certain percentage were discovered via gov't funding (don't forget that industry-academic partnerships also make up a certain percentage of university funding).

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