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GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

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Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#41

Post by eliaspro »

szszrk wrote: post #30

Transition to Wayland opened so many user experience regressions. Many are solved today, or at least partially solved but... There is still no possibility to have proper remote sessions when using Wayland. On any Window Manager and any distro. It's such a shitshow when you go into details. Nothing works, including third party tools (like NoMachine) and I could find no real hope for actual solutions being designed. Th…

"gnome-remote-desktop" does exactly that - providing (amongst other capabilities) a way to handle remote logins: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#42

Post by GuB-42 »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #3

X11 is not going anywhere. If anything it's Gnome adding another nail to its coffin

X11 desktop environments are dying, but it doesn't mean that X11 is dead. XWayland is still a thing so you can still run your X11 apps on Gnome.

The big reason why I want to keep X11 besides backwards compatibility is the ability to run GUI apps remotely, even from a server that has zero graphical capabilities. But these do not really apply to desktop environments. If you want to remote a full desktop rather than individual applications, there are better options (VNC, RDP, ...).

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#43

Post by tokai »

vidarh wrote: post #16
gabrielgio wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x11 is in maintenance mode at this point and Gnome is not going anywhere. Gnome is used (and financed) by major distributions. Nothing new is being created with x11 and the people from freedesktop don't seen to be thrilled to maintain it. I don't think should change just for the sake of changing, but I'd start looking to migrate whatever you use that depends on x11.

For my part, I have no intention of moving off X11 for the next decade at least. The only app I use that I don't fully control is a browser, and the worst case fallback is to run the browser in a Wayland compositor that runs on X.

Are you also still running python2?

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#46

Post by ColonelPhantom »

ur-whale wrote: post #15
gabrielgio wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x11 is in maintenance mode at this point and Gnome is not going anywhere. Gnome is used (and financed) by major distributions. Nothing new is being created with x11 and the people from freedesktop don't seen to be thrilled to maintain it. I don't think should change just for the sake of changing, but I'd start looking to migrate whatever you use that depends on x11.

> x11 is in maintenance mode at this point and Gnome is not going anywhere True. But does not address the fact that Wayland is a bad solution to X11's problems, and that its architecturally broken from inception.

I don't think it's true that anything is architecturally or fundamentally broken in Wayland (though if you disagree, I'm very curious what you think is so deeply broken).

Most of the issues and slow adoption were because the core protocol was deliberately kept extremely minimal, and agreeing on all the needed extensions took a long time. Don't take it from me, but rather from KDE developer Nate Graham: https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-thi...

As such, anyone who tried it early probably had to deal with a pretty large amount of non-working stuff, but by now the platform is capable of most features people require and the biggest remaining bottleneck is that software needs to use these new APIs.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#47

Post by ga_to »

BoredPositron wrote: post #38
killerstorm wrote: post #25

I've been using Gnome for years, but, honestly, it just isn't good: seems like it's optimized for very basic use. Something as simple as adding launcher to a panel now requires an extension. Also Wayland has some problem on my system (Thinkpad / Intel Xe) where it randomly just goes slow, this makes it an easy choice to try things other than Gnome.

[flagged]

Gonna tell him what?

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#48

Post by ColonelPhantom »

user3939382 wrote: post #26
gabrielgio wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand what you mean. Do you mean wayland is not usable with nvidia proprietary driver? I remember that being annoying but possible many year ago (with sway --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia thingy). But if you use really old nvidia gpu you can have a mixed experience with wayland. Which is a fair problem to complain, but you can't blame that on wayland and call that lack of freedom. That problem was c…

The “what’s the harm” here is the systemd conversation all over again basically. If you pipe everything through a single point of failure black box users have already lost, when you combine it binary blob drivers that shouldn’t exist it’s worse. Linux is doomed in achieving its most important goals which are user freedom, not someone’s idea of pretty UI imposed at the expense of that. If that’s what users want they s…

Where is this Wayland black box then? If anything, Wayland made this situation significantly better: the X11 server was exactly this 'single point of failure black box' you are describing. Wayland replaces this with a much simpler protocol with multiple independent implementations (notably Mutter/gnome-shell, KWin, wlroots-based ones such as sway, and Smithay-based ones such as niri).

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#49

Post by vidarh »

tokai wrote: post #43
vidarh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my part, I have no intention of moving off X11 for the next decade at least. The only app I use that I don't fully control is a browser, and the worst case fallback is to run the browser in a Wayland compositor that runs on X.

Are you also still running python2?

What a weird question. I have no use compelling use-case for python2. I have plenty of use-cases for X, such as the fact that none of my software other than my browser has Wayland support, including my window manager.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#50

Post by magicalhippo »

eliaspro wrote: post #41
szszrk wrote: post #30

Transition to Wayland opened so many user experience regressions. Many are solved today, or at least partially solved but... There is still no possibility to have proper remote sessions when using Wayland. On any Window Manager and any distro. It's such a shitshow when you go into details. Nothing works, including third party tools (like NoMachine) and I could find no real hope for actual solutions being designed. Th…

"gnome-remote-desktop" does exactly that - providing (amongst other capabilities) a way to handle remote logins: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop

It's not explicit from the link, but does it allow the headless login to be resumed from console and vice versa?

I tried some solutions in the past but they did not support that, which is a deal breaker.

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