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Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

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Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#81
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open weight models aren’t worth very much money to most people.

They do everything the closed weight models do, slightly less effectively, but for way cheaper. I'd buy that for a dollar! Just because people aren't spending money on them doesn't mean it won't eat your lunch.

The closed weight models aren’t worth very much money to most people, who find a 20 dollar subscription a bit pricey.

Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#83
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no mind Interesting. What is your response to the cogito?

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The first link is about consciousness. The second link is that language is not thought. The third link is that intentions as "discrete mental states" may not be found in the brain.

This does not necessarily disprove the existence of an world model, and these papers are not directly dealing with the concept. As shown with how LLMs work, the world model (and how the brain thinks) may be more implicit rather than explicit philosophical/psychological constructs within the neural net of the brain.

As opposed to neural nets and LLMs, neuroscientists and the like have no way of taking out a human brain and hooking it up to a computer to run experiments on what our neurons are doing. These software are the next best thing at the moment of determining what neurons can do and how they work.

Perhaps there is a dialectical synthesis that can be made of your position that I interpret to be something like "there does not exist discrete cartesian states within the brain" with how neural nets learn concepts implicitly through statistics.

Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The canonical 20th-century response to "cogito ergo sum" is Wittgenstein's "private-language argument." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/private-language/ When you thought to yourself, "I think therefore I am," in what language did you think it? In English? The English language is an artifact of a community of English speakers. You can't have a language with grammatical rules without a community of speakers to make…

Language, and especially its mechanics like grammar, are entirely a distraction w.r.t. "cogito ergo sum". The underlying argument it points to is language-independent.

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Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The first link is about consciousness. The second link is that language is not thought. The third link is that intentions as "discrete mental states" may not be found in the brain. This does not necessarily disprove the existence of an world model, and these papers are not directly dealing with the concept. As shown with how LLMs work, the world model (and how the brain thinks) may be more implicit rather than explic…

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Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#87
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Here is the stub of a reply I can't be assed to finish right now: Words and language refer to sensations (P.I. §244: "How do words refer to sensations?"). Sensations can exist independently of language to refer to them (P.I. §256: "—But suppose I didn’t have any natural expression for the sensation, but only had the sensation?"). Thus it can be possible for one to experience the cogito, the mere act of aware…

I note that you keep saying "cogito" without the "ergo." "I think therefore I am" is invalid, and what's wrong with it is the "therefore," the idea that you knew one thing, and you drew a "logical" conclusion from it, in a "prior to language" environment where words have no meaning, where "true" and "false" are indistinguishable, and logic is impossible. Logic requires words. "Logical" means "verbal," from the Greek…

If you define "logic" as requiring words, then it's only a model of casuality, which is real irrespective of life entirely.

You're demanding that language perfectly convey an abstract argument, which is obviously unreasonable, and saying that since it can't do that we can't discuss tricky subjects at all, which if you take this line of reasoning seriously is all of them. So how about you "remain silent".

Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#88

The LLM grift is burned up, so this is the next thing. It has just enough new magic tricks to wow the VCs who don't really get what's going on here. I think this comment from the article says it all: “Taking images and turning them into 3D environments using gaussian splats, depth and inpainting. Cool, but that’s a 3D GS pipeline, not a robot brain.”

One problem with VR and VFX is how expensive it is in terms of man hours to create immersive worlds. This significantly reduces the cost and has applications in all sorts of ways and could realistically improve the availability of content in VR and reduce movie production costs. And that’s just the obvious applications (ignoring that these world models can be used to train AI itself)

That's great! It's just not a world model as these people are pitching it.

Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#89
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most useful models are image, video, and audio models. It makes sense that we'd make the video models more 4D aware. Text really hogged all the attention. Media is where AI is really going to shine. Some of the most profitable models right now are in music, image, and video generation. A lot of people are having a blast doing things they could legitimately never do before, and real working professionals are able…

> Some of the most profitable models right now are in music, image, and video generation. Which companies are using these.models to run at a profit?

MidJourney, ElevenLabs, Suno, Kling

Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"

#90
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most useful models are image, video, and audio models. It makes sense that we'd make the video models more 4D aware. Text really hogged all the attention. Media is where AI is really going to shine. Some of the most profitable models right now are in music, image, and video generation. A lot of people are having a blast doing things they could legitimately never do before, and real working professionals are able…

>> The most useful models are image, video, and audio models This is wrong. The vast majority of revenue is being generated by text models because they are so useful.

> they are so useful.

Enterprise doesn't know how to use these models to achieve business outcomes.

These subscriptions will unwind, and when they do, it'll be a bloodbath.

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