I’m trying to understand the conversation around “world models.” Why is Tesla’s FSD rarely mentioned in these discussions? Their system perceives, reasons, and acts in the physical world, and they train it using large-scale simulation/digital-twin environments. In what sense does FSD not count as a world model—or does it, and I’m missing something?
Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
61–70 of 105 posts
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no mind Interesting. What is your response to the cogito?
The canonical 20th-century response to "cogito ergo sum" is Wittgenstein's "private-language argument." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/private-language/ When you thought to yourself, "I think therefore I am," in what language did you think it? In English? The English language is an artifact of a community of English speakers. You can't have a language with grammatical rules without a community of speakers to make…
Language, and especially its mechanics like grammar, are entirely a distraction w.r.t. "cogito ergo sum". The underlying argument it points to is language-independent.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#63LLMs are parameter based representations of linguistic representations of the world. Relative to robot predictive control problems, they are low dimensional and static. They are batch trained using supervised learning and are not designed to manage real time shifts in the external world or the reward space. They work because they operate in abstract, rule governed spaces like language and mathematics. They are ill su…
See, I don't get why people say that the world is somehow more complex than the world of mathematics. I think that is because people don't really understand what mathematics is. A computer game for example is pure mathematics, minus the players, but the players can also be modelled just by their observed digital inputs / outputs. So the world of mathematics is really the only world model we need. If we can build a se…
A computer game is also textures, audio, maybe 3d models and landscapes, music composition, and data manipulation functions (see Minecraft).
Sure mathematics can be said to be at the core of most of that but you’re grossly oversimplifying.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
The canonical 20th-century response to "cogito ergo sum" is Wittgenstein's "private-language argument." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/private-language/ When you thought to yourself, "I think therefore I am," in what language did you think it? In English? The English language is an artifact of a community of English speakers. You can't have a language with grammatical rules without a community of speakers to make…
Language, and especially its mechanics like grammar, are entirely a distraction w.r.t. "cogito ergo sum". The underlying argument it points to is language-independent.
Correct. Here is the stub of a reply I can't be assed to finish right now:
Words and language refer to sensations (P.I. §244: "How do words refer to sensations?").
Sensations can exist independently of language to refer to them (P.I. §256: "—But suppose I didn’t have any natural expression for the sensation, but only had the sensation?").
Thus it can be possible for one to experience the cogito, the mere act of awareness, independently of language. The point of the cogito is its self-evidence, prior to language even entering the picture as a sign standing for or referring to the self-evident sensation of conscious awareness.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#65I’m trying to understand the conversation around “world models.” Why is Tesla’s FSD rarely mentioned in these discussions? Their system perceives, reasons, and acts in the physical world, and they train it using large-scale simulation/digital-twin environments. In what sense does FSD not count as a world model—or does it, and I’m missing something?
I don't know why you're focusing on Tesla to the exclusion of more successful self-driving efforts like Waymo, but yeah, cars moving around in and predicting the real world are pretty interesting in this regard.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#66With all due respect, AI is ultimately a capital game. World models aren’t where real B2B customer revenue comes from—at least compared to today’s LLMs; they’re mainly a better story for raising huge amounts of private capital. Hopefully they figure out how to build the next-gen AI architecture along the way.
The most useful models are image, video, and audio models. It makes sense that we'd make the video models more 4D aware. Text really hogged all the attention. Media is where AI is really going to shine. Some of the most profitable models right now are in music, image, and video generation. A lot of people are having a blast doing things they could legitimately never do before, and real working professionals are able…
> Some of the most profitable models right now are in music, image, and video generation.
Which companies are using these.models to run at a profit?
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no mind Interesting. What is your response to the cogito?
The canonical 20th-century response to "cogito ergo sum" is Wittgenstein's "private-language argument." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/private-language/ When you thought to yourself, "I think therefore I am," in what language did you think it? In English? The English language is an artifact of a community of English speakers. You can't have a language with grammatical rules without a community of speakers to make…
That's a lot of words to claim that language has exist before thought can, which gets disproved in an instant when your audience points to the large number of fauna on earth that has no language and yet displays thought.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#68LLMs are parameter based representations of linguistic representations of the world. Relative to robot predictive control problems, they are low dimensional and static. They are batch trained using supervised learning and are not designed to manage real time shifts in the external world or the reward space. They work because they operate in abstract, rule governed spaces like language and mathematics. They are ill su…
See, I don't get why people say that the world is somehow more complex than the world of mathematics. I think that is because people don't really understand what mathematics is. A computer game for example is pure mathematics, minus the players, but the players can also be modelled just by their observed digital inputs / outputs. So the world of mathematics is really the only world model we need. If we can build a se…
> So the world of mathematics is really the only world model we need. If we can build a self-supervised entity for that world, we can also deal with the real world.
In theory I think you are kind of right, in that you can model a lot of real world behaviour using maths, but it's an extremely inefficient lense to view much of the world through.
Consider something like playing catch on a windy day. If you wanted to model that mathematically there is a lot going on: you've got the ball interacting with gravity, fluid dynamics of the ball moving through the air, the changing wind conditions etc. yet this is a very basic task that many humans can do without really thinking about it.
Put more succinctly, there are many things we'd think of as very basic which need very complex maths to approach.
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
The canonical 20th-century response to "cogito ergo sum" is Wittgenstein's "private-language argument." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/private-language/ When you thought to yourself, "I think therefore I am," in what language did you think it? In English? The English language is an artifact of a community of English speakers. You can't have a language with grammatical rules without a community of speakers to make…
That's a lot of words to claim that language has exist before thought can, which gets disproved in an instant when your audience points to the large number of fauna on earth that has no language and yet displays thought.
That's not what I'm arguing. The argument is that "cogito ergo sum" is invalid, which is part of an argument against the existence of a "mind" above and beyond what the brain does in a living body. The atoms are all there is.
I don't think I have a "mind" above and beyond my body, and I don't think you do, either. Animals can remember stuff, solve puzzles, and express pain, just like you or I do. We do all that with our brains, not with our "minds."
Re: Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models"
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a lot of words to claim that language has exist before thought can, which gets disproved in an instant when your audience points to the large number of fauna on earth that has no language and yet displays thought.
That's not what I'm arguing. The argument is that "cogito ergo sum" is invalid, which is part of an argument against the existence of a "mind" above and beyond what the brain does in a living body. The atoms are all there is. I don't think I have a "mind" above and beyond my body, and I don't think you do, either. Animals can remember stuff, solve puzzles, and express pain, just like you or I do. We do all that with…
> an argument against the existence of a "mind" above and beyond what the brain does in a living body.
> We do all that with our brains, not with our "minds."
Analogously, there is no "software." The MOSFET is all there is. Object-oriented programming is merely an emergent phenomenon thereof.